Harbaugh is good coach but the college game has passed him by...
- Thread starter maelfan
- Start date
If he "spends every breath moment thinking about maximizing talent", he's not going to win. Unless by maximizing talent you mean coaching and improving the players he has, but I haven't seen much of that. The players he has recruited don't seem to be getting better as they stay here. He needs to start coaching the talent he has.
And if by maximizing talent you mean recruiting better players, I haven't seen that either because the best players on his teams so far have been players recruited by Hoke.
I don't know what the issue is between the play calling / QB/ OL.. From my perspective it looks like all 3 are mixed in there but that's the key to turning the corner and contending. If we fix that, we're a double digits win team contending for the B1G. Yesterday's performance after an entire month to prepare didn't inspire much confidence. If we continue to see the same things next year, especially if Patterson is the QB, I think we'll all know the real problem is with the coaching staff..
UM has averaged 8-4 in the post-Schembechler era. Why would you think the result would be any different merely because the coach is named Harbaugh? Michigan is, over time, an 8-4 program.
As much as we may like JH and admire his performance and leadership both at UM and in the NFL, it’s hard to debate your analysis. I just hope you’re wrong on lots of counts. We should know more after 2018.
What analysis? Maybe I’m missing something but seems like straight up opinion and discounts the bad luck, only speaking to some lucky wins.
“Over his head” .....Wow. Ok.
In addition to a few really skewed opinions you spat out with this post, this takes the cake.
The sky is falling.
What great mind would you have suggested we went out to get rather hiring JH after the 5-7 2014 season? Would you move on from JH now if you had the keys? If so - who would you hire?
In addition to a few really skewed opinions you spat out with this post, this takes the cake.
The sky is falling.
What great mind would you have suggested we went out to get rather hiring JH after the 5-7 2014 season? Would you move on from JH now if you had the keys? If so - who would you hire?
^I agree #sixty. I don't understand the extreme negativity. I completely understand some concern, but not the "sky is falling" mentality.
I really do feel that once Harbaugh gets the personnel in a steady state......and gets a nice steady run of QB's, RB's, and OL's that he'll go 10-2 above every single yr.
Now, the concern.......if all he is able to go is 10-2......and hasn't been able to go toe-toe with PSU and OSU.......and thus not get into the playoffs at a fair frequency......then, there is cause for concern. Michigan with all it's history shouldn't have to settle for that.
I really do feel that once Harbaugh gets the personnel in a steady state......and gets a nice steady run of QB's, RB's, and OL's that he'll go 10-2 above every single yr.
Now, the concern.......if all he is able to go is 10-2......and hasn't been able to go toe-toe with PSU and OSU.......and thus not get into the playoffs at a fair frequency......then, there is cause for concern. Michigan with all it's history shouldn't have to settle for that.
Basically any coach in America can go 10-2 against Michigan's standard schedule with near-elite talent on defense and "steady personnel" at OL, QB, and RB (you're words, but you really mean "A full contingent of NFL-Bound Personnel")
I don't think Michigan could/should have hired anyone over Harbaugh....but that doesn't guarantee that Harbaugh will actually succeed at Michigan
(nor does it mean he's done well so far)
Michigan needs to start becoming an actual factor in their own conference/division
Sort of.
The real difference is that Michigan has their "Who else could we possible want, GOAT coach"..... and has still been less relevant during his tenure (the last 3 years)
If Michigan continues to allow numerous midwest schools like Ohio State, Notre Dame, Michigan State, and Wisconsin to be more relevant than Michigan, while having Harbaugh, I'm not sure where Michigan turns to next
Which in no way changes the fact that ND has been better and more relevant than Michigan during 2/3 years under Harbaugh
Same is true for Michigan State.....better and more relevant for 2/3 years under Harbaugh
Same is true for Wisconsin.....better and more relevant for 2/3 years
Only difference for Ohio State is that it's 3/3
The criticisms of Harbaugh are fair, when he has not even solidified Michigan as a Top5 program in the midwest.......despite supposedly being a GOAT level coach
The very fact that Michigan with Harbaugh isn't obviously a winning comparison against ND/Kelly, Mich St/Dantonio, Wisco/Chryst, Penn St/Franklin.........nor even in the discussion with Ohio St/Meyere........is the point of the criticism itself
Harbaugh wasn't supposed to be "just another coach", he's basically Michigan's great white hope
Lol. Not the case at all. Overall record during the last 3 years shows that. Fact is: you are stuck with Brian Kelly. One of th worst in-game managers in football. Just a year removed from 4-8. Let that sink in again.
If that's really what makes you feel better about 5-10 programs IN THE MIDWEST being more relevant than Michigan WITH HARBAUGH most years.....great.
Kelly, one of the worst in-game managers in football (according to you), has been better than Harbaugh 2/3 years......let that sink in
Harbaugh has a losing record against virtually all of his rivals....let that sink in.
The criticisms are beyond warranted, for the reasons I've pointed out
LOL on Kelly being better. Not even CLOSE.
The criticisms for Kelly are BEYOND warranted. For a ND fan to come here and discuss this topic is quite comical. We understand that you need to project your frustrations somewhere, but it is very amusing to say the least.
4-8 just a year ago. Let that sink in again.
Yes, criticisms of Kelly are also warranted, no question. What in the world does that have to do with whether or not the criticisms of Harbaugh are warranted??
The fact that Kelly, a guy you're ready to criticize, has finished better than Harbaugh 2/3 years should tell you that Harbaugh is nowhere near the GOAT Savior status that he was hyped as, and so far as been "Just Another Guy"...at best
And why are you trying to focus on ND 2 years ago....ignoring that ND just won 10 games ... and finished #11 overall ... after beating 4 Top25 Teams?
What was Harbaugh/Michigan's 2017 record?
Where did Harbaugh/Michigan finish in the rankings?
How many Top25 Teams did Harbaugh/Michigan beat?
Your arguments here are both irrelevant to Harbaugh's performance at Michigan and flat-out childish
Do better
Again. You completely miss the point. Where in the world did I call Harbaugh a “savior” lol? Nice try though.
Let’s see here: Since Harbaugh arrived he has a better record than Kelly, hasn’t missed a bowl game, hasn’t gone 4-8. You want to bring up this nonsense than let’s look at it both ways. Again, very amusing this is coming from an Irish fan.
And Kelly has been at ND far longer than Harbaugh to build his program. 4-8 in the midst of that is laughable.
The Michigan fanbase has hailed Harbaugh as a savior, which is why he's now being criticized for failing to live up the billing as a top level coach, and instead being "just a guy
And as I've pointed out, it's comical how you want to focus on 2016, instead of the most recent season.......I wonder why that is?
Like I've said, Harbaugh done some decent things, like continually be an average coach.
Unfortunately, he's been worse than his meaningful competitors in 2/3 years (at least):
Notre Dame
Michigan State
Penn State
Wisconsin
etc.
And then there is Ohio State, who Harbaugh was supposedly going to compete with...
That's the standard the GOAT Harbaugh is being compared to. When he falls short, criticism is reasonable
LOL!! You can replace Notre Dame with Michigan as to the team that has been worse. I’m focusing on the body of work. You only want to focus on this year for some reason. 4-8 last year AND Kelly has a worse record despite being at ND for years. He has yet to establish anything at ND except continued mediocrity.
Wait....you're focusing on the body of work....but think the guy that has finished WORSE in 2/3 years is doing better???
ND was better in the most recent season
ND's roster is better right now
ND's been better more often than not during Harbaugh's tenure
And again, the very fact that you have to argue whether Harbaugh has been better than Kelly at ND shows that Harbaugh has FAILED compared to expectations (elite level coach)
Harbaugh is "Just a Guy" at this point....best case....and may actually be the 7th or 8th best coach in the midwest
(or perhaps worse)
The criticisms are therefore clearly warranted, when compared to expectations
Well given that Harbaugh has been better 2/3 years than Kelly, the whole time he has been at Michigan, that IS the body of work.
The criticisms of Harbaugh are fair. The criticisms of Kelly are beyond warranted. Worse record the past 3 years (not to mention a WHOLE 2 games better than Michigan this year-hahaha wow), and a year removed from 4-8.
Harbaugh has recruited far better than Kelly since he arrived. Michigan has a better and deeper roster, more talent, a MUCH better defensive coordinator, and a better team going into 2018 overall.
Michigan is in a far better place than ND with Kelly. Lol
Both PharmaD and OneILLIrish have valid points. Here's my take on both, I don't follow the Irish very much, but Kelly is an average coach. I say that because my Sister-in-law is a Irish fan, and she agrees. Now I have a cousin that played fb for Uof M and his coach was Bo. He told me that he would not play for Harbaugh with the offensive plan that he runs. He also said he is not worth $8m a year, he needs to get faster rb and some speedy wrs to start to compete with MSU,OSU,WIS, And PSU. he also thinks PSU is a piece of s**T. He is an attny, and he donates to the athletic fund.
Away from the "Michigan Man" concept, most likely, but that doesn't mean you have to swing the needle too far.
With Rich Rod, they swung the needle too far away......too far. The shock of doing things so differently/abrasively (without winning to soothe wounds), caused a rebound affect where they reverted back to guys like Hoke/Harbaugh. Harbaugh to me was a home run hire, but if he fails then it may be worth looking for the next Franklin/Frost/Flavor-o-the-day coach even if it means not being a Michigan Man. I don't think I'd call up Les Miles....given that he isn't flexible with his offensive tendencies.
You just have to be smart with the choice. A high profile job like Michigan will need someone with an offense that is balanced and not too far off from a pro-style........meaning, that you don't have go all Air Raid like Leach at WSU.....or Johnson at GT. They also need to be able to handle the traditions and media well (something that Rich Rod couldn't do).
Go eat some bucknuts and stay on your own board. Nobody cares about you on this board. If you can't stand it stay home, bucknut.
Oh, boy ... friend, take a deep breath and accept the fact that Michigan since Yost is all smoke and mirrors. Your tag is 'mman1969' ... in 1969 you beat an OSU team devoid of one of its best QBs of all time in Rex Kern. I recall it all too well. Nobody cares about either you OR me on this or any other board. Best tune it down a notch or two, and let's let it all play out. Doesn't matter a whit what anyone here says or writes.
Well I have a cousin that played for BO. And let me tell you it wasn't all smoke and mirrors. It was intense and disaplinded under Bo's command. It meant something to the players and he had respect from players and YES he had respect from that team down south. Were you old enough to remember those days? The best QB of time is playing in the Super Bowl in a couple of weeks.
Yup Harbaugh knows the pressure is on. But maybe you should send IZZO and Dantonio some advise, be cause with all the problems you got One or Both of your coaches will be gone after all the stuff that coming out.
I'm not worried about Izzo or Dantonio being fired. Neither had anything to do with Nassar and the people above Nassar who could have done something are gone, as they should be. As for them supposedly covering up other crimes, that story is getting thinner the more it is looked into. Could they have made mistakes? Absolutely, but it looks like they followed policy in turning the offenders into the appropriate investigatory bodies and they push back against the accusations are getting traction. Is the policy screwed up, or should it be changed? That's a different question.
So did the DA and he dropped it without charging them. And Dunnings was no friend of MSU athletes
And what about Travis Walton, you can't sit there and tell me Izzo didn't know about his issues. And I do remember awhile back that a MSU football player went to jail and got out on the morning of the next game and Dantonio picked him up at The jail house and he played that very afternoon. That's not holding accountability in my mind. Just saying that when this is all said and done (the NCAA) is on this) someones going to get canned. That's why Hollis resigned, he was dirty and he knew Shit was going to hit the fan.
Therw are zero questions about our defense that carry any weight. There are a million about JIM'S offense. Let's be honest ..Michigan has been a 9 and 3 type program for most of 25 years or so. I will say rhat if Jim can't run the ball any better than we have against good teams , he and Michigan are a 4 and 5 loss team waiting to happen. When you play bully ball with average backs and below average olinemen you have problems .
