Before long, we are going to have to be able to throw the ball down the field to win. I'm surprised how weak Rudock's arm is, we'll need Morris at some point, hope he gets some snaps to be ready when needed.
Rudock is just not a good passer, need to get Morris some snaps
- Thread starter St. Joe Blue 3
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Rudock has been bad today. That being said, as one other poster said on another site, Morris would play if he was better. He might be needed and wouldn't mind him getting a few snaps but I'll take the lumps with Rudock and his limitations than having Morris or the guy from last year.
When we start playing the good teams, the inability to throw the ball downfield is going to kill us.
I can't disagree with you. Our deep ball game is poor and you saw UNLV just cram the line of scrimmage.
If Rudock gets an okay run game and actually throws the ball like UM did on this last drive (4th qtr) then UM will be okay...not great. If they get the 1st half Rudock then they aren't going to score very many points.
If Rudock gets an okay run game and actually throws the ball like UM did on this last drive (4th qtr) then UM will be okay...not great. If they get the 1st half Rudock then they aren't going to score very many points.
When the good teams we'll be facing know we can't go deep, they'll jam and stuff our running game at the line of scrimmage, won't be pretty.
Looks like (with seven minutes left in the game) we're going to keep Rudock in the game to practice handing off , throwing sideways, and botching his downfield throws.
Looks like (with seven minutes left in the game) we're going to keep Rudock in the game to practice handing off , throwing sideways, and botching his downfield throws.
The problem is putting in Morris would net worse results, hence why Rudock is playing.
I don't think we need better results against UNLV, we need to get a backup some snaps to prepare if Rudock gets hurt down the line, or we get in a situation where we actually need a downfield game.
I actually felt more comfortable in a way with Speight throwing the ball than Morris. Morris just scares me although he probably is better.
As others have said...Morris is better just based on the spring game but if you can't beat out Rudock and it wasn't even that close then Morris is probably never going to see the field unless significant injuries.
I am not so sure Speight hasn't even beaten Morris out. Why redshirt Morris when you have O'Korn. Is it to make Morris more attractive for other programs?
What is the value of redshirting Morris? It's not like he is Chad Henne. The guy is a backup and why save 1 year in his career when O'Korn AND Peters will be in the program.
As others have said...Morris is better just based on the spring game but if you can't beat out Rudock and it wasn't even that close then Morris is probably never going to see the field unless significant injuries.
I am not so sure Speight hasn't even beaten Morris out. Why redshirt Morris when you have O'Korn. Is it to make Morris more attractive for other programs?
What is the value of redshirting Morris? It's not like he is Chad Henne. The guy is a backup and why save 1 year in his career when O'Korn AND Peters will be in the program.
I watched his game vs. Nebraska last year when he was at Iowa and he threw an even uglier ball then than he does now.
Harbaugh and staff need to get him to throw an accurate deep ball every once in awhile.
Harbaugh and staff need to get him to throw an accurate deep ball every once in awhile.
Agree, in that I don't see the value to Michigan of redshirting Morris. Has to be more to it than any of us know ... but we can and do guess.
I picked up something from the 1st game that many people haven't figured out yet...which is Harbaugh and staff are going with Rudock and his limitations. It's boom or bust. I see nothing that tells me Harbaugh is going in any other direction.
This is a transition year (at least at the qb position) until they get O'Korn who I think they like and UM is just focusing on winning somehow..someway and to continue to develop the running game.
I think Rudock was brought in here for a short term gap after they saw what they had in qb's and going forward it's Rudock this year...and then O'Korn, Malzone and Peters. Speight and Morris after just qb fodder and I think the staff would have no problem talking to both of these guys and telling them to search opportunities elsewhere.
Neither one of them (Morris/Speight) are Harbaugh type qb's..in my opinion. Harbaugh wants qb's who can get the ball to the TE's and backs and occasionally throw a good deep ball.
Here is what I am saying. Harbaugh rather have a guy like Brady than Manning.
This is a transition year (at least at the qb position) until they get O'Korn who I think they like and UM is just focusing on winning somehow..someway and to continue to develop the running game.
I think Rudock was brought in here for a short term gap after they saw what they had in qb's and going forward it's Rudock this year...and then O'Korn, Malzone and Peters. Speight and Morris after just qb fodder and I think the staff would have no problem talking to both of these guys and telling them to search opportunities elsewhere.
Neither one of them (Morris/Speight) are Harbaugh type qb's..in my opinion. Harbaugh wants qb's who can get the ball to the TE's and backs and occasionally throw a good deep ball.
Here is what I am saying. Harbaugh rather have a guy like Brady than Manning.
Just to add . This is NOT all Jake's fault ! I have coached 44 years and coach the WRs and DBs. Great opportunity to teach BOTH sides so the players get the other side's perspective. When you run "Go" , or "Fade" routes you have to get BACK on course ( I called it WEAVE) and not get PUSHED into the boundary for the throw is tougher on the QB. It allows him no margin for error. I tell the WRs that the WR and the QB ned "PLAYROOM" to adjust. If you stay up the side line you are asking the QB to put the ball right THERE !! I see the ERs running up the side line hashes and no way can they fade, nor adjust to routes. IMHO "74
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I thought WS threw a couple really nice deep balls - WRs dropped it but he was on the spot and accurate. Ruddock is terrible at best - great for short throws but that's about it. I think moving forward teams are going to load up the line and dare us to go deep with 1-1 coverage of our WRs with safeties playing up front.
rudock can't pass any ball longer then 10 yds.WS threw two nice balls in the endzone, that no one caught,these wrs never seem to be open, or maybe they are just to damn slow.
I don't get what's going on at all...
What is the harm in giving Shane some snaps?
Redshirting him with the stable of QB's we have coming in makes no sense.
Rudock is not a very good QB in any aspect of the game.
Once again this team has no QB, which is a damn shame ,because we do have some other parts that are good.
What is the harm in giving Shane some snaps?
Redshirting him with the stable of QB's we have coming in makes no sense.
Rudock is not a very good QB in any aspect of the game.
Once again this team has no QB, which is a damn shame ,because we do have some other parts that are good.
I would disagree. I think Rudock can step up in the process and do a couple of good things. I knew he wasn't good at throwing anything over 15 yards but his accuracy can be better. It was awful today. I keep forgetting Gentry is also a factor going forward.
Back to this year. Rudock was brought in for only one purpose..so that UM didn't have Morris as the qb. Go back before Harbaugh. This qb situation was enormous black hole. UM had nothing and now they have Malzone, Gentry and O'Korn competing for the job.
Rudock is basically a band aid on a quarterback gashing wound. There is a reason UM has him this year and he can be adequate as a 5th year guy if he gets running game and clearly plays better than he did today. I am glad he is here because I know what the alternative is behind him.
Rudock is basically a 2% return on investment which is better than losing money but not clearly ideal for any investment. How about that analogy?
Back to this year. Rudock was brought in for only one purpose..so that UM didn't have Morris as the qb. Go back before Harbaugh. This qb situation was enormous black hole. UM had nothing and now they have Malzone, Gentry and O'Korn competing for the job.
Rudock is basically a band aid on a quarterback gashing wound. There is a reason UM has him this year and he can be adequate as a 5th year guy if he gets running game and clearly plays better than he did today. I am glad he is here because I know what the alternative is behind him.
Rudock is basically a 2% return on investment which is better than losing money but not clearly ideal for any investment. How about that analogy?
I have to believe that Morris could get some things done with the deep ball and also with his legs. It's not like Rudock is doing a great job of protecting the ball and managing the game. To not even give Shane some snaps is just wrong - some kids perform better when there's a real game happening. What harm would there have been to let Morris play half the game today? If he's not worthy of playing in garbage time now, we certainly don't need his redshirt...
I believe in Harbaugh, but I do not agree with how this is being handled.
I believe in Harbaugh, but I do not agree with how this is being handled.
If Morris was a viable option then Harbaugh would play him. He wants to win. I'll give you this...Harbaugh doesn't want a qb controversy but it must have been pretty one-sided during camp.
The problem with that is Morris has never shown us anything. At all. We have reports from high school that he's talented, and that's pretty much it.
To be clear, I have no problem with Coach Harbaugh wanting to go with Rudock as the starter. But it's a long season, and against the cupcakes you should be getting your backup QB some game action to better prepare him if the need arises, such as an injury to the starter, or for situations when we will have to be able to throw deep to have a chance to win (like we will when we play good teams).
After spring camp we heard that Morris was the clear leader at QB. During fall camp we consistently heard it was neck and neck between Rudock and Morris, not between Rudock and anyone else. I have not heard anything since Rudock was first named the starter that anybody but Morris was second on the depth chart, have you?
If Morris is second in line, then he should be getting snaps when situations allow, like today, playing a cupcake with a big second half lead.
I don't get it. No way does redshirting Morris make any sense. I'm beginning to wonder if their is a health issue of some sort, like possibly a concussion concern that's being kept under wraps. Again, it's just not making sense to me.
After spring camp we heard that Morris was the clear leader at QB. During fall camp we consistently heard it was neck and neck between Rudock and Morris, not between Rudock and anyone else. I have not heard anything since Rudock was first named the starter that anybody but Morris was second on the depth chart, have you?
If Morris is second in line, then he should be getting snaps when situations allow, like today, playing a cupcake with a big second half lead.
I don't get it. No way does redshirting Morris make any sense. I'm beginning to wonder if their is a health issue of some sort, like possibly a concussion concern that's being kept under wraps. Again, it's just not making sense to me.
Valid points. I don't think Morris is the 2nd string right now.
He knows Rudock is the best option at his disposal and has chosen him and that's it. He doesn't want Morris and politically has just eliminated him from the equation. QB controversies aren't good and he has just isolated Morris and that's that.
He knows Rudock is the best option at his disposal and has chosen him and that's it. He doesn't want Morris and politically has just eliminated him from the equation. QB controversies aren't good and he has just isolated Morris and that's that.
I'm starting to think the redshirt issue is to aid in Morris transferring. Harbaugh must flat-out not like or believe in the kid.
Anyways, after watching BYU last night, they are a solid team and we will need some sort of downfield passing game to win. It will be a difficult game to win with subpar QB play - very similar to Utah. Also, watched Iowa and Beathard is light years beyond Rudock.
I'd like to know what Rudock showed in fall camp that separated him so much from Morris, because whatever it was, it's not on display now.
And if the kid who is supposedly the better leader is turning the ball over and not able to make the chunk plays that we need, why not give the better athlete with the big arm a chance? If he fails, he goes back to the bench. This makes no sense...
At some point Harbaugh will have to admit to himself that Rudock just can't be coached up...Maybe he already realizes this and still thinks he's better than Morris - that's a scary thought.
Even if Shane went out there and made some mistakes (which Rudock certainly is) he would also have a better chance of making some big positive plays.
Anyways, after watching BYU last night, they are a solid team and we will need some sort of downfield passing game to win. It will be a difficult game to win with subpar QB play - very similar to Utah. Also, watched Iowa and Beathard is light years beyond Rudock.
I'd like to know what Rudock showed in fall camp that separated him so much from Morris, because whatever it was, it's not on display now.
And if the kid who is supposedly the better leader is turning the ball over and not able to make the chunk plays that we need, why not give the better athlete with the big arm a chance? If he fails, he goes back to the bench. This makes no sense...
At some point Harbaugh will have to admit to himself that Rudock just can't be coached up...Maybe he already realizes this and still thinks he's better than Morris - that's a scary thought.
Even if Shane went out there and made some mistakes (which Rudock certainly is) he would also have a better chance of making some big positive plays.
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Morris completed 35% of his passes last year, and didn't look a whole lot better in the spring or the open scrimmage in August. I know the backup QB is always the most popular guy on the team but really, it's likely that Rudock is the best we've got (who is currently eligible - O'Korn probably is the best QB in the program).
Let's give Rudock his due in some areas. He's usually pretty good at going through his progressions, and he's completed 65% of his passes - yeah, they're mostly shorter throws but still, they're usually on target (the miss to Butt in the end zone being a glaring exception). Also, he's good at stepping up in the pocket and has taken only one sack in three games. Morris or Speight might throw a better deep ball but they're probably worse in other aspects of the position. We're not likely to find a Chad Henne sitting on the bench this season.
I think we're also letting the WR corps off the hook a bit too much. How many spectacular catches have you seen our guys make? Braylon Edwards, Marquise Walker, Jason Avant - those guys would rip the ball out of the air. We're not seeing that with this current WR group. They're waiting for the ball to fall in their hands. Jake Butt's TD against Utah was the one time I saw a Michigan player really go up and get that ball.
Let's give Rudock his due in some areas. He's usually pretty good at going through his progressions, and he's completed 65% of his passes - yeah, they're mostly shorter throws but still, they're usually on target (the miss to Butt in the end zone being a glaring exception). Also, he's good at stepping up in the pocket and has taken only one sack in three games. Morris or Speight might throw a better deep ball but they're probably worse in other aspects of the position. We're not likely to find a Chad Henne sitting on the bench this season.
I think we're also letting the WR corps off the hook a bit too much. How many spectacular catches have you seen our guys make? Braylon Edwards, Marquise Walker, Jason Avant - those guys would rip the ball out of the air. We're not seeing that with this current WR group. They're waiting for the ball to fall in their hands. Jake Butt's TD against Utah was the one time I saw a Michigan player really go up and get that ball.
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Rudock isn't going to win any downfield qb awards. That said, he is going to be fine going forward.
I have no problem leaving him in games versus getting some "backup" work. He needs work in the system, too.
Just a few adjustments and things will be fine. They are going to start screening and bootlegging the "better" teams that everyone says will stack the box.
I have no problem leaving him in games versus getting some "backup" work. He needs work in the system, too.
Just a few adjustments and things will be fine. They are going to start screening and bootlegging the "better" teams that everyone says will stack the box.
It wouldn't make sense to have Morris redshirt just so he could transfer. He could have just as easily transferred and sat out this year, and at least practiced with another program.
And I honestly don't understand this "downfield passing" stuff. You do realize that Morris completed 35% of his passes last year, right? Sure, he can throw the ball farther, but it doesn't mean it's any more catchable than Rudock's throws. And Rudock has an absolute pocket presence that Shane doesn't have. He moves well in the pocket and has picked up some 3rd downs by keeping his eyes downfield that other QB's wouldn't have. The only thing we've seen out of Shane Morris is VERY poor QB play, so I don't know why people think he's going to be an upgrade, nobody has seen him play well.
I'm not saying Rudock has been great, by any stretch. But I think he's been better than you're giving him credit for.
Harbaugh was a good NFL QB and has coached Andrew Luck-When he says that Rudock is he by far the best QB on the roster, I think he would know better than anyone watching it on TV. This is why he offered Rudock to play for him for 1 year. He is also getting $8million to coach so I 100% trust him. Shane is NOT the better option and will not start next year either. He can stay on the roster and finish his degree from UM because he will NEVER go pro. If Shane thinks he is a pro QB then he can do the Ondre Pipkins move and leave to play elsewhere.
I never said Rudock shouldn't be the starter, especially if Coach Harbaugh thinks he's the best. I did say it would be wise to get a backup some game time snaps (especially in the last two cupcake games) because it's a long season ... Rudock could get injured, and he's demonstrated he can't throw deep at all ... there will be games when to have a chance to win, we'll have to go deep. If not Morris, fine ... then get somebody else ready, they will be needed ... not if, but when.
What has Morris ever done to make you think he can be the guy? He has not hit a 40% completion rate as a QB in college. His high school stats in big games is also less than 40%. He would be playing if the coach thought it would give Michigan a better chance of winning. I think Spight and Malzone are practice squad fodder from now on. O'Korn will be the QB next yearn or two and then Peters and the forgotten Gentry can fight it out for the starting spot. Morris has a great arm the problem is he does not know where the ball is going.
Go back and ...read... what ...I... wrote, my last couple posts in this thread. I said we need a backup who can actually heave the rock ... if not Morris, then someone. Not to have a backup ready is not wise, at all.
