Hoke-"I wouldn't have punted...", he's right

[detroitjohn]

He wouldn't have punted, he would have been throwing it up toward the endzone, hoping to get UM back within 21 points at the end of the game. He would never had had this particular team in any sort of lead in this or any of our other big games this year. With Shane Morris as QB, the OL in shambles, the D playing constantly on their heels, we would have been well on our way to another 6-6 juggernaut.

Apparently from his Sirius broadcast,
“Personally, if we have the No. 1 defense in the nation I’m going to test those guys. You’ve got to play to the strength of your football team and the strength of the Michigan football team all year long has been their defense.”

 

[Reality Man]

Definitive proof that Hoke will never ever ever ever get a major head coaching job in a power conference. The guy is beyond stupid.

I agree....Hoke would have never been in that position but to his specific point...why would I try and run the ball against a stacked defensive alignment with an average OL at best and average rb's at best and give my opponent a chance for a quick pass and try and kick a fg to win or one hail mary play. Why wouldn't I just catch the punt and kick it with a really good punter.

Can someone give Hoke a lobotomy?



RM

 

[detroitjohn]

Definitive proof that Hoke will never ever ever ever get a major head coaching job in a power conference. The guy is beyond stupid.

I agree....Hoke would have never been in that position but to his specific point...why would I try and run the ball against a stacked defensive alignment with an average OL at best and average rb's at best and give my opponent a chance for a quick pass and try and kick a fg to win or one hail mary play. Why wouldn't I just catch the punt and kick it with a really good punter.

Can someone give Hoke a lobotomy?



RM

In his defense and coming off my pissed-off-at-Hoke high horse, Marcus Ray said the same thing on WTKA. I think they're both wrong, it just irritates me that Hoke is not keeping his pie-hole shut.

 

[St. Joe Blue 3]

Opening up my hindsight pie-hole again, because I like to .... I'd rather have had us line up in a prevent formation, have Rudock run around along as he could then at the last second heave the ball as deep as he can to nobody (he's got mad skills in doing that) ... the clock runs out and ... kaboommmm.... we win!

Of course, if we had called the running plays wide instead of between the tackles we would have run the clock out before having to even consider punting.

Bye weeks leave too much time for us message boarders to say ... stuff.

 

[Reality Man]

Well Marcus Ray is wrong again. It's common sense. Why would you give your opponent another potential shot at a hail mary or even a quick 8 yard out and then a fg attempt. There are more potential scenarios that lead to an MSU win by not making the first down. The rb could get stopped behind the line of scrimmage. How about 43 yard line. 8 yard quick pass assuming enough time (6-7 seconds) and then it becomes a 52 yard fg to win it.

It's not a very good idea. This is before MSU and it's talented receivers could go down for a hail mary. Just catch the ball and pun it. What makes you think the rb couldn't get the ball stripped or a fumbled snap.

This is just unfortunate for UM. Stuff happens and it just happened in the most inopportune time. I would do the same thing every time to the end of eternity. If the ball was on the 45 of MSU...then I think that makes sense because you could get the 1st down and if you don't the MSU qb has to throw the ball at least 55 yards...probably longer if defended properly. Can Cook throw the ball that far? Maybe...but throwing the ball 60 yards is much tougher than throwing it 50 yards plus worrying about any potential rush from Henry.

I definitely wouldn't have gone for it at that spot. Not even a close decision. At the MSU 45...tougher call but probably would quick punt it.



RM

 

[michnittlion]

In his defense and coming off my pissed-off-at-Hoke high horse, Marcus Ray said the same thing on WTKA. I think they're both wrong, it just irritates me that Hoke is not keeping his pie-hole shut.

I know Hoke has a radio show but bad form for him to say what he said.

Sort of like ex-United States Presidents, it's best to wait a few years (at least one term) before being overly critical and talking about "what I would have done."

Now if Rich Rod wants to give an opinion, he's probably allowed.

 

[Euro]

Hoke is correct. Stick your head in the sand cause you don't like him but a running play gives them a Big Ben at best

 

[detroitjohn]

Hoke is correct. Stick your head in the sand cause you don't like him but a running play gives them a Big Ben at best

Could someone translate this for me...I don't speak Euro?

 

[detroitjohn]

Well Marcus Ray is wrong again. It's common sense. Why would you give your opponent another potential shot at a hail mary or even a quick 8 yard out and then a fg attempt. There are more potential scenarios that lead to an MSU win by not making the first down. The rb could get stopped behind the line of scrimmage. How about 43 yard line. 8 yard quick pass assuming enough time (6-7 seconds) and then it becomes a 52 yard fg to win it.

It's not a very good idea. This is before MSU and it's talented receivers could go down for a hail mary. Just catch the ball and pun it. What makes you think the rb couldn't get the ball stripped or a fumbled snap.

This is just unfortunate for UM. Stuff happens and it just happened in the most inopportune time. I would do the same thing every time to the end of eternity. If the ball was on the 45 of MSU...then I think that makes sense because you could get the 1st down and if you don't the MSU qb has to throw the ball at least 55 yards...probably longer if defended properly. Can Cook throw the ball that far? Maybe...but throwing the ball 60 yards is much tougher than throwing it 50 yards plus worrying about any potential rush from Henry.

I definitely wouldn't have gone for it at that spot. Not even a close decision. At the MSU 45...tougher call but probably would quick punt it.



RM

You don't plan for this kind of utter disaster and to say Harbaugh should have is to insist you are prescient in such situations. No one saying we should have run the ball or whatever was screaming at the screen before the punt. They were, like me, more worried about it being returned or what would happen when MSU got it back.

Regardless, even if the punt is blocked, the chances of it getting run back were marginal and chances are there's a scrum for the ball that ends the game, and if not, you still have a forever pass play to yet complete. I'm so sick of talking about this already!

 

[detroitjohn]

You don't plan for this kind of utter disaster and to say Harbaugh should have is to insist you are prescient in such situations. No one saying we should have run the ball or whatever was screaming at the screen before the punt. They were, like me, more worried about it being returned or what would happen when MSU got it back.

Regardless, even if the punt is blocked, the chances of it getting run back were marginal and chances are there's a scrum for the ball that ends the game, and if not, you still have a forever pass play to yet complete. I'm so sick of talking about this already!

And I'm sure as hell sick of Hoke's little, petulant jabs at Harbaugh and UM, as though he contributed anything more to this team than being a damn, glorified recruiting coordinator.

 

[St. Joe Blue 3]

Could someone translate this for me...I don't speak Euro?

Hoke est correcte . Collez votre tête dans le sable parce que vous ne voulez pas lui, mais un jeu en cours d'exécution leur donne un Big Ben , au mieux,

 

[Reality Man]

Here is what I'll offer. Go ask Saban or Bill B and if they say something different then I'll go with their suggestions.

Not Hoke. The guy has proven beyond a reasonable doubt he can't coach a lick. Would I ask Richard Nixon about Presidential ethics?


RM

 

[Reality Man]

Here is what I'll offer. Go ask Saban or Bill B and if they say something different then I'll go with their suggestions.

Not Hoke. The guy has proven beyond a reasonable doubt he can't coach a lick. Would I ask Richard Nixon about Presidential ethics?


RM

 

[St. Joe Blue 3]

Could you repeat that please?

 

[detroitjohn]

Hoke est correcte . Collez votre tête dans le sable parce que vous ne voulez pas lui, mais un jeu en cours d'exécution leur donne un Big Ben , au mieux,

Hoke ist nicht richtig, er ist ein dummkopf mit keinem arbitem, und Herr Hoke kann licht mir am ars, bitte kommt nicht Herr Hoke weider zum UM

 

[CaliforniaGreen1]

Every one of the potential alternatives also carried risk:

1) Idea - on downs 1-3, run a bit more of time off than was run (i.e., run wide, have Rudock stand with the ball then take a knee before being hit)
Risks: ball mishandled (for example if Rudock in shotgun), runner runs out of bounds killing clock and saving 40 seconds for MSU)

2) Idea - have Rudock kill as much time as possible, then heave it high in the air
Risks: Rudock gets hit and fumbles; Rudock called for intentional grounding (yardage loss, plus game can't end on UM penalty); still doesn't kill all time, leaving time for Hail Mary.

Having said, that, once UM was punting, 2 bad things can happen - 1) a blocked/fumbled punt returned for a TD or, 2) a punt return for a TD; since MSU didn't have a returner, #2 was not a risk and therefore, UM's formation/plan WAS flawed (having the uncovered gunner, and having guys release to go into punt coverage); without a timeout left, UM could have (obviously huge benefit of hindsight) had a delay penalty, then re-grouped into a max protect formation.

 

[St. Joe Blue 3]

Every one of the potential alternatives also carried risk:

1) Idea - on downs 1-3, run a bit more of time off than was run (i.e., run wide, have Rudock stand with the ball then take a knee before being hit)
Risks: ball mishandled (for example if Rudock in shotgun), runner runs out of bounds killing clock and saving 40 seconds for MSU)

2) Idea - have Rudock kill as much time as possible, then heave it high in the air
Risks: Rudock gets hit and fumbles; Rudock called for intentional grounding (yardage loss, plus game can't end on UM penalty); still doesn't kill all time, leaving time for Hail Mary.

Having said, that, once UM was punting, 2 bad things can happen - 1) a blocked/fumbled punt returned for a TD or, 2) a punt return for a TD; since MSU didn't have a returner, #2 was not a risk and therefore, UM's formation/plan WAS flawed (having the uncovered gunner, and having guys release to go into punt coverage); without a timeout left, UM could have (obviously huge benefit of hindsight) had a delay penalty, then re-grouped into a max protect formation.

Yup.

 

[St. Joe Blue 3]

Hoke ist nicht richtig, er ist ein dummkopf mit keinem arbitem, und Herr Hoke kann licht mir am ars, bitte kommt nicht Herr Hoke weider zum UM

Хок Текущая correcte . Collez Напишите, тет данс ле соболя PARCE Que Vous пе Voulez па -луй- Маис ООН Jeu ан Кур d' исполнения Лейр донн ООН Биг Бен , аи Mieux ,

 

[BigHouseBallin]

All the people playing MMQB are hilarious. You punt, plain and simple. You don't give MSU a chance to setup a long FG try or a hail mary. If we execute a routine punt we're 6-1 and in the top 10. However, since that game revealed we don't have the QB play to beat teams at the level I'm fine with where we are. Lets hope O'Korn can take us a few steps further next year.

 

[Euro]

Bottom line St Jim blew it

 

[CinciBlue]

Bottom line St Jim blew it

#DA comment

 

[OldTownPepe]

Had to laugh at Hoke's comments. Does he really think he has any credibility for his coaching acumen? He looked like a deer in the headlights the whole time he stood on the UM sideline. Michigan should have put a "cork it" clause in his walking papers. It's just another example of the trouble with stupid people not knowing they're stupid.

 

[wolverines74]

He wouldn't have punted, he would have been throwing it up toward the endzone, hoping to get UM back within 21 points at the end of the game. He would never had had this particular team in any sort of lead in this or any of our other big games this year. With Shane Morris as QB, the OL in shambles, the D playing constantly on their heels, we would have been well on our way to another 6-6 juggernaut.

Apparently from his Sirius broadcast,
“Personally, if we have the No. 1 defense in the nation I’m going to test those guys. You’ve got to play to the strength of your football team and the strength of the Michigan football team all year long has been their defense.”

D

He wouldn't have punted, he would have been throwing it up toward the endzone, hoping to get UM back within 21 points at the end of the game. He would never had had this particular team in any sort of lead in this or any of our other big games this year. With Shane Morris as QB, the OL in shambles, the D playing constantly on their heels, we would have been well on our way to another 6-6 juggernaut.

Apparently from his Sirius broadcast,
“Personally, if we have the No. 1 defense in the nation I’m going to test those guys. You’ve got to play to the strength of your football team and the strength of the Michigan football team all year long has been their defense.”

YOU got that correct. "74

 

[tarun262]

Hoke's comment was just dumb. Punting was the right call. I do agree that I think we should have tried to get a first down in the first 3 plays - for instance giving the ball to the FB would have been nice there or running more time by running side to side would have been nice as well. However, the game was won and lost by the points we left on the field. Ruddock's throws were so off - had he connected on those, we win the game. Ruddock does not have touch beyond 20 yards and that is going to hurt us over time and he is not improving either. I have never seen a team with such poor WR/QB chemistry and it's unfair giving it's a new system, new coach, and a new QB.

I am very optimistic for the future though next year we won't have any WRs so it will likely be 2017 before the full offense product shows up on the field. I also believe that the team will win the remainder of their games - I truly believe that. I think they will blow out Minn and I expect JH will now open up the full playbook and leave anything to chance either. Calling it here - Michigan will be 10-2 (my original prediction)

Congrats to Sparty btw - they are a tough tough team. Their lines play so solid.

 

[svblue]

Yup.

hmm

seems like beyond the hail mary there were several other things that could happen -
and given the squirrels posing as officials they might be:

*pass interference
*defensive holding
*personal foul - piling on or inadvertent facemask or hitting the QB

The key is that is was only a 2 point lead and a field goal beats you so
anything that moves the ball 15 yards with 1 more play(penalty gives 1 play even if time is expired)
the odds are very real you lose

How likely are these things ... well a lot more than a blocked punt returned for a touchdown on the last play.

 

[CaliforniaGreen1]

Agreed, punting was the right call. And as others have suggested, it looks like he gets if off if he catches the snap cleanly.

But, UM was clearly not in max protection mode. In the video, you see five UM players past the line of scrimmage by the time the ball is muffed (the 2 gunners on each side and three linemen who bumped their guy, then released downfield) - five guys heading downfield despite MSU not having anybody back, creating a huge numbers advantage for MSU once the muff happened.

 

[detroitjohn]

Here's Hoke's crunch-time strategy...

 

[Blue_note]

All the people playing MMQB are hilarious. You punt, plain and simple. You don't give MSU a chance to setup a long FG try or a hail mary. If we execute a routine punt we're 6-1 and in the top 10. However, since that game revealed we don't have the QB play to beat teams at the level I'm fine with where we are. Lets hope O'Korn can take us a few steps further next year.

I know. If he doesn't bobble and bicycle, and actually kicks the football, it's game over
and there's no opp for anyone to display how laser surgery has brought their hindsight up to 20/20.

Brady does it his way, we win, and Michigan ups it's record to 2-5.

Siriusly.

Go Blue. Always.

 

[Blue_note]

Agreed, punting was the right call. And as others have suggested, it looks like he gets if off if he catches the snap cleanly.

But, UM was clearly not in max protection mode. In the video, you see five UM players past the line of scrimmage by the time the ball is muffed (the 2 gunners on each side and three linemen who bumped their guy, then released downfield) - five guys heading downfield despite MSU not having anybody back, creating a huge numbers advantage for MSU once the muff happened.

Just flag MSU for roughing the snapper and it's all mighty moot.

It's on the books and they absolutely DID rough the snapper.

Go Blue. Always.

 

[CaliforniaGreen1]

Just flag MSU for roughing the snapper and it's all mighty moot.

It's on the books and they absolutely DID rough the snapper.

Go Blue. Always.

No, they didn't rough the snapper. Even the ridiculously biased mgoblog review of calls agreed with that once a poster explained the rule.

 

[St. Joe Blue 3]

There are several things that last series that ...could ... have prevented the outcome that happened, from happening.

We could have burned the clock with different play calling on 1st - 3rd downs instead of running plays between the tackles; we could have moved the chains; we could have gone for the 1st down on fourth down; the punter could have caught the snap and got the kick off; the punter could have just covered up the ball on the muffed snap; and a better punt prevent formation could have prevented the run back.

None of which happened and we blew the game. Very unfortunate, learn from it and move on ... beat TUOS!

 

[scfanblue]

The media makes out more than what was intended by twisting meanings and they do this to sell a story. Brady Hoke and Harbaugh's family have known each other for many many years. Brady, despite his failure as the head coach was also Michigan's DL when they won their last national championships. I do not like how Brady fell apart as the HC either his last couple years at UM but come on. He devoted many many years of coaching to UM and he left a good defense intact for Harbaugh and he recruited well with the exception being QB and WR's. He is no longer the HC and frankly I am sick of discussing him just like Rich Rod with Michigan football anymore. Just like last weekend's botched punt. Move on, it's over.

 

[St. Joe Blue 3]

The media makes out more than what was intended by twisting meanings and they do this to sell a story. Brady Hoke and Harbaugh's family have known each other for many many years. Brady, despite his failure as the head coach was also Michigan's DL when they won their last national championships. I do not like how Brady fell apart as the HC either his last couple years at UM but come on. He devoted many many years of coaching to UM and he left a good defense intact for Harbaugh and he recruited well with the exception being QB and WR's. He is no longer the HC and frankly I am sick of discussing him just like Rich Rod with Michigan football anymore. Just like last weekend's botched punt. Move on, it's over.

The Laurence J. Peter's Principle.

 

[detroitjohn]

The media makes out more than what was intended by twisting meanings and they do this to sell a story. Brady Hoke and Harbaugh's family have known each other for many many years. Brady, despite his failure as the head coach was also Michigan's DL when they won their last national championships. I do not like how Brady fell apart as the HC either his last couple years at UM but come on. He devoted many many years of coaching to UM and he left a good defense intact for Harbaugh and he recruited well with the exception being QB and WR's. He is no longer the HC and frankly I am sick of discussing him just like Rich Rod with Michigan football anymore. Just like last weekend's botched punt. Move on, it's over.

He made the statement instead of deftly side-stepping it. How much he helped UM is very debatable, their defense vastly improved and their offense vastly regressed under him. His teams were getting worse each year and he brought few positives as a head coach other than indisputably being loved. Glad to move on from him if he'd keep his mouth shut about his strategery at the end of UM games. His four years were forgettable and will be an historical footnote for UM

 

[tarun262]

He made the statement instead of deftly side-stepping it. How much he helped UM is very debatable, their defense vastly improved and their offense vastly regressed under him. His teams were getting worse each year and he brought few positives as a head coach other than indisputably being loved. Glad to move on from him if he'd keep his mouth shut about his strategery at the end of UM games. His four years were forgettable and will be an historical footnote for UM

I agree, Hoke may be a nice guy but quite frankly for someone with such poor pedigree and results while at Michigan he should not really comment on what Harbaugh should or should not have done. If you are truly friends with the Harbaugh family you show support versus trying to show off your complete lack of coaching skills. Yes, he did wonders for the graduation rates of kids, etc but he did no favors to any of the kids wanting to progress with a career in football beyond that. Nobody will ever challenge Hoke's love for the school or how great a guy he is (though being completely and utter clueless about a concussion on your team is unacceptable to me) but he was a terrible coach and even worse at developing talent. He should stay out of really commenting or critiquing Michigan football right now. I will guarantee you that if Hoke were still the coach MSU would have beaten us by 25 points.

 

[detroitjohn]

I agree, Hoke may be a nice guy but quite frankly for someone with such poor pedigree and results while at Michigan he should not really comment on what Harbaugh should or should not have done. If you are truly friends with the Harbaugh family you show support versus trying to show off your complete lack of coaching skills. Yes, he did wonders for the graduation rates of kids, etc but he did no favors to any of the kids wanting to progress with a career in football beyond that. Nobody will ever challenge Hoke's love for the school or how great a guy he is (though being completely and utter clueless about a concussion on your team is unacceptable to me) but he was a terrible coach and even worse at developing talent. He should stay out of really commenting or critiquing Michigan football right now. I will guarantee you that if Hoke were still the coach MSU would have beaten us by 25 points.

Hoke has made a couple statements that make me think that, with the clarification here of his friendship with the Harbaughs, that he feels a bit short-changed by his firing. I hope I'm wrong about that, but he shows too little diplomacy around this and a couple other questions I've heard him field. Honestly and sadly, he's been the worst coach in my 40 years of following UM football (Rodriguez had about the same level of success, but I think is actually a brilliant offensive mind).

 

[Reality Man]

My father still in denial. Went to the Brady Hoke school of coaching. He is a brilliant engineer but doesn't quite have the same logic in sports.

Here is an example for all of probably 4 UM fans who wanted to run the ball because it was the smarter play. Note the green team beats the blue team.

 

[Reality Man]

There are several things that last series that ...could ... have prevented the outcome that happened, from happening.

We could have burned the clock with different play calling on 1st - 3rd downs instead of running plays between the tackles; we could have moved the chains; we could have gone for the 1st down on fourth down; the punter could have caught the snap and got the kick off; the punter could have just covered up the ball on the muffed snap; and a better punt prevent formation could have prevented the run back.

None of which happened and we blew the game. Very unfortunate, learn from it and move on ... beat TUOS!

No. Why? It led to a punt with 10 seconds left. It was played perfectly. Human error. I don't want to stop the clock or see what happened in a game with the Giants and Eagles.

This stuff happens...and unfortunately it happened to UM against MSU at the wrong time.

 

[St. Joe Blue 3]

No. Why? It led to a punt with 10 seconds left. It was played perfectly. Human error. I don't want to stop the clock or see what happened in a game with the Giants and Eagles.

This stuff happens...and unfortunately it happened to UM against MSU at the wrong time.

Huh???

 

[Reality Man]

self explanatory. Read your comments.

You want to be more aggressive or go outside the tackles. Would the rb have inadvertently run out of bounds? How many more seconds are we talking about...3-4? Show me the value of what you are suggesting.

When I say 'stop the clock'...I mean run out of bounds or have the pass incomplete or an int.

It was played perfectly by coaches. I would have to say huh? to your comments. Give me a specific coaching plan on the last series.

I am all ears. I will counter that it something would have gone wrong...you would have been all over the coaches. It was coached to perfection. Nothing the coaches did other than maybe a gunner on top was wrong and even in that instance it didn't cause the play to collapse.

Human error. Nothing more nothing less.