Had a lengthy discussion with my son about J..S post that saw so much angst and turmoil. Thought his written response had merit and clarity so here it is. Be interesting to read any comments since he was sure there would be a great deal of negativity to it. Ah well.
Thanks, Dad. This is interesting.
I'm not sure what Jim S intended with this post, but it isn't surprising that the thread exploded and likely with fits of fear and loathing as well as those pushing "perspective" and "futures, bright." Prior to his addendum it certainly sells doom and gloom from a trusted (and formerly optimistic) "insider." I struggle to find much analysis or inside information here. It reads like a super fan who talked to "people close to the program" and who all aired their frustrations, fears, opinions and agendas shortly after a shit season following a shit season. To have anonymous "sources" give "several factors" to indicate systemic and core problems that might be unfixable is at best unintentional internet trolling. I think Jim S means well, but this was an irresponsible post among an unreasonable and pissed off fan base with no journalistic controls and really no substantiation. They will stew on this for months and believe it to validate their theories and fears, but what does it actually validate?
The first paragraph analyzes freshmen impact on the NC game. Twitter and every blog is full of people who now think not only can you win with frosh QBs, but you should. The reality is that both QBs played poorly much of the time, and someone won in spite of it. Yes, they both "made plays" and were productive at times, but Bama didn't win because of freshmen. Bama won because they have 5-star 2nd and 3rd stringers. Bama won because 8 guys on offense and 8 guys on defense returned who started games last year. Most of those guys were Jrs/Srs. Bama won because of Saban. GA was there because they had a talented roster full of upper classmen and had talent behind them. Their depth chart lists 12 starters on O and 12 starters on D. 10 of those on O, and 11 on D were Jrs/Srs/5th. So, yes, both had frosh QBs and impact freshmen, but they were surrounded by highly talented, older, experienced players.
It is unfair to compare UM and 120 other programs against AL and GA impact freshmen. They recruit better than anyone except OH, and all three have home regions full of talent and they cheat. Finally, and most importantly, I agree with him that true frosh contribution was "among the least of UM's problems" and would contend it isn't even a problem. Bredeson, Evans (2016) and Black have been very nice impact freshmen for UM. Others less so, but true frosh impact is something that UM is good at relative to most every other program in the country (see also, a disappointing DPJ, a good Ben Mason and various special team excellence like Bush).
The next analysis of offensive coaching seems to say it is all on Harbaugh. I do think he is the architect and final arbiter of the offense, but to think that Pep/Drevno/Fisch didn't matter and making good hires wouldn't help is foolish. Pep was fired mid-season by the Colts partly because they felt his offense had no continuity or identity, and players weren't executing it well. That sounds familiar. Harbaugh and Co. mistakenly tried to change their O early this year and got better when they went back to power/IZ and away from outside zone. I think the fiddling wasn't good for OL or QB. I think the biggest problems were OL, QB, frosh WRs, OL, QB and QB. Coaching was not helpful. Sp8 had report with Fisch and I think took a step back partly due to Pep and partly due to frosh WRs, and partly due to his own failings. JOK was never going to be a good (or even average) college QB. Drevno has a history of success with OL, but it is time for his recruits and his coaching to produce on the field. I am very hopeful that Enos and a real WR coach (not a GA) can help. I also think it is unreasonable to think that Harbaugh forgot how to be (or stopped putting in effort to be) a good/great offensive/QB coach.
Jim S doesn't even say that Harbaugh isn't good. He just postulates "what if" he can't replicate all his former success here at Michigan "for whatever reason." I would prefer he analyze it and try to give a reason rather than stoke the chorus that "the Emperor has no clothes". He says, "I certainly don't have the answers, but the question has to be posed." Does it? It's already being posed (a la radio, twitter, blogs). And his post again seems like he's sharing "insider" info and keeping the most substantial stuff in the dark. So, not only is this "insider" but there's more -- super secret more. It says, I talked with people who said, the Emperor has no clothes, and may never wear any again, but I can't tell you who or how they know.
Are the quotes responsible? Anonymous quotes are fine, but it'd be nice to have context (e.g. former player for Mo, or football staffer under Lloyd, or booster close to program, or HS coach from area school). I totally believe these quotes are real, but I'm not sure if they're any more meaningful than quoting you and our other M football nut. (Names changed to protect the guilty) Are these guys who didn't like Harbaugh? Are these guys who he has pissed off? Do they know coaching? Do they know recruiting? How "close to the program" are they? Do they watch practice?
"There are major problems at Michigan." [jmc: please give one example or any context whatsoever. Is this insightful or Chicken Little? No way to tell.]
"Same continued problems as every staff has had since Lloyd." [jmc: What are these problems? Who can fix them? JH >>>>>> RR/Hoke so does that mean something? Sounds like doom and gloom guy since 2007 and/or Lloyd guy who doesn't want anyone else.]
"Kids from Cincy/Navy can't recruit for UM." [jmc: UM has ND's former recruiting coordinator, and Chris Partridge is one of the best in the nation and he's from HS. UM now has multiple former recruiting coordinators on staff. Many excellent recruiters come from small schools.]
"Nutty UM fans drove out Lloyd. Now look what they've got." [jmc: so Harbaugh is worse than Lloyd? This sounds like a guy with a grudge. I agree UM fans are nutty. This quote is nutty.]
"UM having hard time attracting quality coaches." [jmc: Turnover is bothersome. Coaching tree is long and impressive. There is no evidence that this quote is true. Has anyone seen Don Brown? There is always the specter of JH's intensity/competitiveness/personality wearing on people. Is this the thing that shall not be named?]
"Harbaugh does not know how to recruit." [jmc: again, no evidence. Most evidence to the contrary. 2016 and 2017 were excellent classes (maybe elite). 2019 has started really well. 2018 is "down" stars-wise and seems to have been bumpy, but that happens sometimes. Also, it may end up to be a very good class. Play on the field didn't help. This person dismisses previous recruits as being the work of staff hires. These were great ideas. They worked. Partridge and GMatt are great recruiters. Supposedly, Al Washington is very, very good too. Matt Dudek (former ND recruiting coordinator) is supposedly very good. To pull Solomon, Turner and Sims (hopefully Reese) from GA indicates very good recruiting. Other quotes on recruiting just seem like frustrated fans at this year having no 5-stars and losing 4-star battles. It does not feel like someone who really knows player evaluation/development/recruitment. UM didn't lose Harris and Wilson because they were complacent or arrogant. Anyone who closely followed those recruitments saw how much JH and staff worked right up until then end to get them. Indications from Wilson's parents and coaches were very positive. The kid just made a late choice. It happens. Harris was never very likely to come to UM, but they got into the fight which indicates they know how to recruit. Losing some recruits to AL and GA isn't evidence that Harbaugh doesn't know how to recruit. They've lost recruits to UM too.]
"Work ethic?" [jmc: so now Harbaugh has a work ethic problem? A time management problem? This seems the depth of nit picking and frustration theory. I've heard part of his issue with staff is that he works longer hours and more days than other coaches. Which is it? He's not spending enough time on football or he's wearing his assistants out with expectations.]
I guess the post seems short on analysis or real inside information and very long on frustration unsubstantiated "theories" and the promise of a "close to the program" "far from comforting" "different reality." But all of that is shrouded in mystery. I guess Jim S wanted to share what he heard, what he feels, and probably wanted to vent. Clearly, he likes to post. I'm just not sure how much one can really take away from it.
What do we know now that we didn't before? What was enlightening in it? It reads like a powder keg. His addendum is less sensational, and backs off the doom and gloom a bit. I don't think UM should expect to compete with Bama. They need to compete and should expect to compete with OH, PSU, WI and MSU.
My doubts are up. My expectations are lowered. I had Harbaugh on a pedestal and have taken him down. I thought him proven to be elite -- and he would produce elite results on the field. I still believe what he did previously was elite, and think its reasonable to expect excellence because of past performance. However, the past two years have been failures on the field. I thought being an elite coach would mean UM would succeed in ways where reason might predict failure. There were plenty of reasons for UM to fail this year (youth, injuries, lack of OL, coaching carousel, etc.) but elite coaches do overcome. Harbaugh over achieved in year 1. He's failed since. Why? What is missing? I have these questions too. Again, I think it reasonable to think his past success is repeatable at UM, and have not seen anything to doubt that's not still reasonable to believe. Next year I hope they surprise. Football blogs are unreadable now. Another failure next year and I'll have to unplug.
"I'm happy here. I work for the best coach in America." -- Don Brown
"Jim Harbaugh is the best developmental coach in America." -- Joel Klatt
"I'd probably give him about an A. A or A-minus, maybe." -- Kirk Herbstreit
"He's the #1 coaching candidate in the country." -- The entire NFL
BTW, my factoid about 8 guys each on O and D for AL was from their 2017 Wikipedia page. I actually had a hard time finding a depth chart. The depth chart I used for GA was week 11 vs. AU (re: 10 & 11 out of 12 upper classmen).
Go Blue
Thanks, Dad. This is interesting.
I'm not sure what Jim S intended with this post, but it isn't surprising that the thread exploded and likely with fits of fear and loathing as well as those pushing "perspective" and "futures, bright." Prior to his addendum it certainly sells doom and gloom from a trusted (and formerly optimistic) "insider." I struggle to find much analysis or inside information here. It reads like a super fan who talked to "people close to the program" and who all aired their frustrations, fears, opinions and agendas shortly after a shit season following a shit season. To have anonymous "sources" give "several factors" to indicate systemic and core problems that might be unfixable is at best unintentional internet trolling. I think Jim S means well, but this was an irresponsible post among an unreasonable and pissed off fan base with no journalistic controls and really no substantiation. They will stew on this for months and believe it to validate their theories and fears, but what does it actually validate?
The first paragraph analyzes freshmen impact on the NC game. Twitter and every blog is full of people who now think not only can you win with frosh QBs, but you should. The reality is that both QBs played poorly much of the time, and someone won in spite of it. Yes, they both "made plays" and were productive at times, but Bama didn't win because of freshmen. Bama won because they have 5-star 2nd and 3rd stringers. Bama won because 8 guys on offense and 8 guys on defense returned who started games last year. Most of those guys were Jrs/Srs. Bama won because of Saban. GA was there because they had a talented roster full of upper classmen and had talent behind them. Their depth chart lists 12 starters on O and 12 starters on D. 10 of those on O, and 11 on D were Jrs/Srs/5th. So, yes, both had frosh QBs and impact freshmen, but they were surrounded by highly talented, older, experienced players.
It is unfair to compare UM and 120 other programs against AL and GA impact freshmen. They recruit better than anyone except OH, and all three have home regions full of talent and they cheat. Finally, and most importantly, I agree with him that true frosh contribution was "among the least of UM's problems" and would contend it isn't even a problem. Bredeson, Evans (2016) and Black have been very nice impact freshmen for UM. Others less so, but true frosh impact is something that UM is good at relative to most every other program in the country (see also, a disappointing DPJ, a good Ben Mason and various special team excellence like Bush).
The next analysis of offensive coaching seems to say it is all on Harbaugh. I do think he is the architect and final arbiter of the offense, but to think that Pep/Drevno/Fisch didn't matter and making good hires wouldn't help is foolish. Pep was fired mid-season by the Colts partly because they felt his offense had no continuity or identity, and players weren't executing it well. That sounds familiar. Harbaugh and Co. mistakenly tried to change their O early this year and got better when they went back to power/IZ and away from outside zone. I think the fiddling wasn't good for OL or QB. I think the biggest problems were OL, QB, frosh WRs, OL, QB and QB. Coaching was not helpful. Sp8 had report with Fisch and I think took a step back partly due to Pep and partly due to frosh WRs, and partly due to his own failings. JOK was never going to be a good (or even average) college QB. Drevno has a history of success with OL, but it is time for his recruits and his coaching to produce on the field. I am very hopeful that Enos and a real WR coach (not a GA) can help. I also think it is unreasonable to think that Harbaugh forgot how to be (or stopped putting in effort to be) a good/great offensive/QB coach.
Jim S doesn't even say that Harbaugh isn't good. He just postulates "what if" he can't replicate all his former success here at Michigan "for whatever reason." I would prefer he analyze it and try to give a reason rather than stoke the chorus that "the Emperor has no clothes". He says, "I certainly don't have the answers, but the question has to be posed." Does it? It's already being posed (a la radio, twitter, blogs). And his post again seems like he's sharing "insider" info and keeping the most substantial stuff in the dark. So, not only is this "insider" but there's more -- super secret more. It says, I talked with people who said, the Emperor has no clothes, and may never wear any again, but I can't tell you who or how they know.
Are the quotes responsible? Anonymous quotes are fine, but it'd be nice to have context (e.g. former player for Mo, or football staffer under Lloyd, or booster close to program, or HS coach from area school). I totally believe these quotes are real, but I'm not sure if they're any more meaningful than quoting you and our other M football nut. (Names changed to protect the guilty) Are these guys who didn't like Harbaugh? Are these guys who he has pissed off? Do they know coaching? Do they know recruiting? How "close to the program" are they? Do they watch practice?
"There are major problems at Michigan." [jmc: please give one example or any context whatsoever. Is this insightful or Chicken Little? No way to tell.]
"Same continued problems as every staff has had since Lloyd." [jmc: What are these problems? Who can fix them? JH >>>>>> RR/Hoke so does that mean something? Sounds like doom and gloom guy since 2007 and/or Lloyd guy who doesn't want anyone else.]
"Kids from Cincy/Navy can't recruit for UM." [jmc: UM has ND's former recruiting coordinator, and Chris Partridge is one of the best in the nation and he's from HS. UM now has multiple former recruiting coordinators on staff. Many excellent recruiters come from small schools.]
"Nutty UM fans drove out Lloyd. Now look what they've got." [jmc: so Harbaugh is worse than Lloyd? This sounds like a guy with a grudge. I agree UM fans are nutty. This quote is nutty.]
"UM having hard time attracting quality coaches." [jmc: Turnover is bothersome. Coaching tree is long and impressive. There is no evidence that this quote is true. Has anyone seen Don Brown? There is always the specter of JH's intensity/competitiveness/personality wearing on people. Is this the thing that shall not be named?]
"Harbaugh does not know how to recruit." [jmc: again, no evidence. Most evidence to the contrary. 2016 and 2017 were excellent classes (maybe elite). 2019 has started really well. 2018 is "down" stars-wise and seems to have been bumpy, but that happens sometimes. Also, it may end up to be a very good class. Play on the field didn't help. This person dismisses previous recruits as being the work of staff hires. These were great ideas. They worked. Partridge and GMatt are great recruiters. Supposedly, Al Washington is very, very good too. Matt Dudek (former ND recruiting coordinator) is supposedly very good. To pull Solomon, Turner and Sims (hopefully Reese) from GA indicates very good recruiting. Other quotes on recruiting just seem like frustrated fans at this year having no 5-stars and losing 4-star battles. It does not feel like someone who really knows player evaluation/development/recruitment. UM didn't lose Harris and Wilson because they were complacent or arrogant. Anyone who closely followed those recruitments saw how much JH and staff worked right up until then end to get them. Indications from Wilson's parents and coaches were very positive. The kid just made a late choice. It happens. Harris was never very likely to come to UM, but they got into the fight which indicates they know how to recruit. Losing some recruits to AL and GA isn't evidence that Harbaugh doesn't know how to recruit. They've lost recruits to UM too.]
"Work ethic?" [jmc: so now Harbaugh has a work ethic problem? A time management problem? This seems the depth of nit picking and frustration theory. I've heard part of his issue with staff is that he works longer hours and more days than other coaches. Which is it? He's not spending enough time on football or he's wearing his assistants out with expectations.]
I guess the post seems short on analysis or real inside information and very long on frustration unsubstantiated "theories" and the promise of a "close to the program" "far from comforting" "different reality." But all of that is shrouded in mystery. I guess Jim S wanted to share what he heard, what he feels, and probably wanted to vent. Clearly, he likes to post. I'm just not sure how much one can really take away from it.
What do we know now that we didn't before? What was enlightening in it? It reads like a powder keg. His addendum is less sensational, and backs off the doom and gloom a bit. I don't think UM should expect to compete with Bama. They need to compete and should expect to compete with OH, PSU, WI and MSU.
My doubts are up. My expectations are lowered. I had Harbaugh on a pedestal and have taken him down. I thought him proven to be elite -- and he would produce elite results on the field. I still believe what he did previously was elite, and think its reasonable to expect excellence because of past performance. However, the past two years have been failures on the field. I thought being an elite coach would mean UM would succeed in ways where reason might predict failure. There were plenty of reasons for UM to fail this year (youth, injuries, lack of OL, coaching carousel, etc.) but elite coaches do overcome. Harbaugh over achieved in year 1. He's failed since. Why? What is missing? I have these questions too. Again, I think it reasonable to think his past success is repeatable at UM, and have not seen anything to doubt that's not still reasonable to believe. Next year I hope they surprise. Football blogs are unreadable now. Another failure next year and I'll have to unplug.
"I'm happy here. I work for the best coach in America." -- Don Brown
"Jim Harbaugh is the best developmental coach in America." -- Joel Klatt
"I'd probably give him about an A. A or A-minus, maybe." -- Kirk Herbstreit
"He's the #1 coaching candidate in the country." -- The entire NFL
BTW, my factoid about 8 guys each on O and D for AL was from their 2017 Wikipedia page. I actually had a hard time finding a depth chart. The depth chart I used for GA was week 11 vs. AU (re: 10 & 11 out of 12 upper classmen).
Go Blue
