what a bunch of negative nellies

[ArrowheadBlue]

give the boys some credit. A 2nd stringer and a solid defense when it counted beat Minn in the most emotional game the Gophers will play all season.

Rudick, which every poster panned as the worst QB in the past 2 decades has matured into one of the best, probably due to coaching.

The defense was gashed today by Ind. But Ind. gashed almost all defenses. Howard is really good. And the OL is mostly seniors. Give Indy credit. They deserve credit.

the UM secondary still looks pretty good and the DL can make stops when necessary (generally). As one of the few colleges with a special team coach, he had better earn his money the next two weeks because the last two haven't exactly gone as predicted. And the snapped nearly cost UM the game.

I look at UM as leaving at least 9 points on the field before OT.

Besides good teams find ways to win. UM won. What does that mean?

And we're worried about next season? The OL returns less the center with a solid backup available and another OT who's playing as a freshman. And no team has recruited a better OL. 2 or 3 WRs are coming in and there's every reason to believe this staff can coach up the kids. RB is a mystery and so is the rotation.

The DL returns with Mone and Glasgow to join the others. That can cover a lot of ills in the LB corp. Secondary returns, too, as well as the FG. And they say that McKorn is every bit as good if not better than Rudick and he has a year of learning from Harbaugh.

In conclusion be thankful for what we have and remember that the staff will have a full year of coaching, not just 6 months, to get things in order.

 

[klemman]

Overall, Michigan is still a work in progress and as mentioned Indiana has a good offense. The closeness of the game was not a big surprise. But winning close games like this gives the Wolverines confidence, which makes them very dangerous.

 

[blue-boy]

Good thing the refs "ruled" that Lewis's forward motion was stopped on the one KO...he fumbled that ball and IU would've had great field position and we weren't stopping them at the time. The kids hung in there and made a couple of plays late, sometimes it's better being lucky than good.

 

[detroitjohn]

give the boys some credit. A 2nd stringer and a solid defense when it counted beat Minn in the most emotional game the Gophers will play all season.

Rudick, which every poster panned as the worst QB in the past 2 decades has matured into one of the best, probably due to coaching.

The defense was gashed today by Ind. But Ind. gashed almost all defenses. Howard is really good. And the OL is mostly seniors. Give Indy credit. They deserve credit.

the UM secondary still looks pretty good and the DL can make stops when necessary (generally). As one of the few colleges with a special team coach, he had better earn his money the next two weeks because the last two haven't exactly gone as predicted. And the snapped nearly cost UM the game.

I look at UM as leaving at least 9 points on the field before OT.

Besides good teams find ways to win. UM won. What does that mean?

And we're worried about next season? The OL returns less the center with a solid backup available and another OT who's playing as a freshman. And no team has recruited a better OL. 2 or 3 WRs are coming in and there's every reason to believe this staff can coach up the kids. RB is a mystery and so is the rotation.

The DL returns with Mone and Glasgow to join the others. That can cover a lot of ills in the LB corp. Secondary returns, too, as well as the FG. And they say that McKorn is every bit as good if not better than Rudick and he has a year of learning from Harbaugh.

In conclusion be thankful for what we have and remember that the staff will have a full year of coaching, not just 6 months, to get things in order.

Not all of us are cynics or hate Rudock, but he clearly was not the same QB as he was at Iowa the first half of this season. He's improved a lot and his obviously making better decisions and plays in the last three games. Your assessment of the RBs is partially correct, partially it's an issue of OL cohesion. We also are stuck w several backs of the same stripe without a home run hitter besides Isaac who hasn't shown up a lot.

The team has a long ways to go and needs a lot more depth at positions but I think most objective posters see the growth, observe the recruiting, walk-ins, and transfers and like it. We want to see light out between the last 15 years of underperforming and we see some areas especially w special teams where the team has regressed and are concerned about a smoke-and-mirrors repeat of 2011.

 

[tarun262]

I still sticking to my 10-2 prediction this year. We will beat PSU and OSU. As for next year, I think we will regress to about 7-8 wins. You do not lose your starting QB, TE, 2 WRs, 2 DEs, 2 LBs, Center and likely one CB and expect to be just fine the following year. We will have a lot of youth next year and unlike Hoke's regime it won't take them 19 years to develop but it will take them more then a fall practice though.

 

[ArrowheadBlue]

here's where I think you're wrong Tarun.

The OL should be far better with plenty of depth and a strong recruiting class coming in. It all starts with the OL on offense. The QB is rumored to be even stronger than Rudick and he will have 18 months of learning JH's system instead of 3 weeks.

The DL loses two DEs but returns at least 4 inside rushers, some who can go to the outside and perhaps Poggi returns to DE. Losing our linebackers? After a few games recently that may not be a bad thing. There are some good backups who become better as the DL gets better.

the DBs seem to be okay and there's some special coaching going on back there for newcomers. The WRs, now that's intriguing. Both of come a long way. Coaching? If so there's no reason to expect much of a dropoff because the backups will have the benefit of 18 months of coaching.

I don't think anyone can discredit the benefit of solid coaching. JH has the credentials. with a big incoming class there should be adequate backups being developed.

 

[tarun262]

here's where I think you're wrong Tarun.

The OL should be far better with plenty of depth and a strong recruiting class coming in. It all starts with the OL on offense. The QB is rumored to be even stronger than Rudick and he will have 18 months of learning JH's system instead of 3 weeks.

The DL loses two DEs but returns at least 4 inside rushers, some who can go to the outside and perhaps Poggi returns to DE. Losing our linebackers? After a few games recently that may not be a bad thing. There are some good backups who become better as the DL gets better.

the DBs seem to be okay and there's some special coaching going on back there for newcomers. The WRs, now that's intriguing. Both of come a long way. Coaching? If so there's no reason to expect much of a dropoff because the backups will have the benefit of 18 months of coaching.

I don't think anyone can discredit the benefit of solid coaching. JH has the credentials. with a big incoming class there should be adequate backups being developed.

We will have no WRs to throw the ball to - does not matter how great your QB if you WRs can not get open it does not matter. We will have the same underachieving RBs. You can't tell me that when you lose Ruddock, Darboh, Chesson, Butt, Lewis, Glasgow (center), Wormley, Ojemudia you don't take a massive hit? They have basically been our best players this season. The only other players that are still returning next year that have done well are Glasgow & Peppers. Everyone else has been a disappointment. I am sure Bunting will be good and I hope Smith can see holes better and be patient but most of these players are still average at best until better talent arrives.

I agree O'Korn will be good - but Ruddock has nerves of steel, just not the touch. So I would say that's even. WRs we take a hit, TE we take a hit. OL is better, DL is better with Mone coming back. Backfield is same. Defensive backfield is worse despite Peppers being there. Don't forget we play @MSU and @OSU. I am just being realistic. I expected 10-2 this season and 8-4 next season and then I expected us to be the dominant team by 2017 and beyond.

 

[Reality Man]

First...if you guaranteed me a win against PSU and a loss against OSU...would take it. 9 wins would be a really good first year. Of course I want to win against OSU but I understand the symbolism of 9 wins. That is a 4 game improvement. It gets UM to a New Years day bowl. Big difference between winning 8 vs. 9 games. Would I'd rather beat OSU than PSU...Yes...but I'd prefer 9 wins sooner rather than later.

Tarun...you make a legitimate point on the wr's. Chesson is going to be a huge loss. He has been coached up and is now just coming into his own. Better late than never. However...there is some mature wr talent coming in from N.J.

I think the one skinny kid (forget his name) will come on but I am not certain on that issue. Maybe Ways? Your point is valid. I see UM landing a big fish at rb because these kids have got to see how limited UM is at rb and I can guarantee you that one of the 5 stars will want more PT.

All valid points Tarun. Losing Butt is going to be huge but Harbaugh will go out a get grad transfers to shore up weak spots.

Yes....UM is really another year away from a top 10 team.


RM

 

[CinciBlue]

First...if you guaranteed me a win against PSU and a loss against OSU...would take it. 9 wins would be a really good first year. Of course I want to win against OSU but I understand the symbolism of 9 wins. That is a 4 game improvement. It gets UM to a New Years day bowl. Big difference between winning 8 vs. 9 games. Would I'd rather beat OSU than PSU...Yes...but I'd prefer 9 wins sooner rather than later.

Tarun...you make a legitimate point on the wr's. Chesson is going to be a huge loss. He has been coached up and is now just coming into his own. Better late than never. However...there is some mature wr talent coming in from N.J.

I think the one skinny kid (forget his name) will come on but I am not certain on that issue. Maybe Ways? Your point is valid. I see UM landing a big fish at rb because these kids have got to see how limited UM is at rb and I can guarantee you that one of the 5 stars will want more PT.

All valid points Tarun. Losing Butt is going to be huge but Harbaugh will go out a get grad transfers to shore up weak spots.

Yes....UM is really another year away from a top 10 team.


RM

Where is Butt going?

 

[detroitjohn]

Where is Butt going?

Or Chesson, Darboh, and Lewis...

 

[ChicagoBlueFan]

Or Chesson, Darboh, and Lewis...

Isn't Wormley also a RS Jr? Is it certain he's leaving?

 

[Mustangs91]

My first post here but this discussion was driving me crazy to get confirmation. Wasn't chesson redshirted his freshman year and darboh medically redshirted his sophomore year? If so, don't they both have one more year of eligibility?

 

[detroitjohn]

Isn't Wormley also a RS Jr? Is it certain he's leaving?

Correct, so basically we're losing our LB corps and Rudock, plus a couple others. If we find LBs and one breakaway runner from NJ plus the development of a QB starter, this team is even more set for talent next year overall.

 

[ArrowheadBlue]

my (original) point exactly. There's enough backups on the OL with 4 to 5 studs entering in the fall; WRs will be okay and they say O'Korn is really good. UM needs a RB.

On defense everyone but the starting LBers return. And everyone has a full year of truly solid coaching.

With OSU losing a ton to the NFL and MSU losing Cook my guess is UM will be picked for the BIG pre-season title.

 

[tarun262]

I was mistaken - I thought Wormley, Chesson, & Darboh were all 5th year Sr. If all of them come back, we will be in very good shape on both sides of the ball. So yes, if everyone returns and Butt and Lewis don't bolt for the NFL, I expect 10 wins or more. O'Korn already knows the offense and he already plays with the WRs. The O-line will have one more year of experience and your hope is they should improve. Yes our RBs suck but we can make up for it. LBs will be an issue though. I am still surprised that elite LBs don't want to come play for Michigan knowing they will get to start as true freshmen!

 

[detroitjohn]

I was mistaken - I thought Wormley, Chesson, & Darboh were all 5th year Sr. If all of them come back, we will be in very good shape on both sides of the ball. So yes, if everyone returns and Butt and Lewis don't bolt for the NFL, I expect 10 wins or more. O'Korn already knows the offense and he already plays with the WRs. The O-line will have one more year of experience and your hope is they should improve. Yes our RBs suck but we can make up for it. LBs will be an issue though. I am still surprised that elite LBs don't want to come play for Michigan knowing they will get to start as true freshmen!

Smith has been fine at RB and would be a great compliment to a breakaway RB option. We just don't have that clearly on the roster yet. He also does not seem durable enough, given his upright running style, to do 20+ carries per game. He has been mangled and man-handled because he stands up on contact.

The LB situation is a paramount concern and you're right to wonder about that part of our recruiting.

 

[tarun262]

Smith has been fine at RB and would be a great compliment to a breakaway RB option. We just don't have that clearly on the roster yet. He also does not seem durable enough, given his upright running style, to do 20+ carries per game. He has been mangled and man-handled because he stands up on contact.

The LB situation is a paramount concern and you're right to wonder about that part of our recruiting.

I don't share the same view on Smith. Smith is ok at best - he still does not fall forward and often loses yards. Good RBs gain yards even when they are tackled and fall forward. He's strong but I am not convinced he knows how to use his strength properly. Smith is the kind of RB that should be able to get you the 2 yards you need in short situations and he is not at all. Furthermore, Smith misses holes way too often - he is not a patient runner at all. There were 3-4 times he missed the hole this past weekend as well. Isaac, ironically has what it takes to do really well - he shows flashes of brilliance but he can not block to save his life...Smith on the other hand has evolved into becoming a great blocker though.

 

[detroitjohn]

I don't share the same view on Smith. Smith is ok at best - he still does not fall forward and often loses yards. Good RBs gain yards even when they are tackled and fall forward. He's strong but I am not convinced he knows how to use his strength properly. Smith is the kind of RB that should be able to get you the 2 yards you need in short situations and he is not at all. Furthermore, Smith misses holes way too often - he is not a patient runner at all. There were 3-4 times he missed the hole this past weekend as well. Isaac, ironically has what it takes to do really well - he shows flashes of brilliance but he can not block to save his life...Smith on the other hand has evolved into becoming a great blocker though.

Fair enough, Smith has plenty of room to improve (and the OL has not been stellar in his defense) and his running style costs him physically and in YACs. I would like him as change-up, power option behind a more consistently good blocking OL.

 

[tarun262]

Fair enough, Smith has plenty of room to improve (and the OL has not been stellar in his defense) and his running style costs him physically and in YACs. I would like him as change-up, power option behind a more consistently good blocking OL.

He needs to be patient as opposed to just being a bull because that is not working for him. Jury is still out on the O-line but I will say this, they have mastered pass protection. Rudock for the most part has been able to stay upright in almost all the games which was the biggest issue the past couple years.

 

[detroitjohn]

He needs to be patient as opposed to just being a bull because that is not working for him. Jury is still out on the O-line but I will say this, they have mastered pass protection. Rudock for the most part has been able to stay upright in almost all the games which was the biggest issue the past couple years.

World's better in pass protection than the last two years, where "Watch out, here he comes!" from a lineman typically followed "Hike!".