I have not looked at the imbalanced schedule and how that might favor one of us over the other, so that could change things in my mind. Of course winning at home and not having to go to Breslin is a help off the start. But aside from that, I think we are better. I think they, Denzel Valentine in particular, is overrated.
Michigan will finish higher than the typically overrated Spartans this year...
- Thread starter maelfan
- Start date
Valentine is very good. I do think (at least for this year)....UM will actually outperform MSU.
I have told my Kentucky friend that UM will be ranked around #10 nationally after about 60 days.
UM is loaded. I don't think Wagner is going to redshirt. UM can physical down low and has a bench that goes 10 deep and when they get to 8-10...it's not like these guys are just spelling guys for minutes. They can play.
Players ranked.
1. LeVert
2. Walton
3. Dawkins
4. Irvin
5. Albrecht
6. Wilson
7. Doyle
8. Robinson
9. MAAR
10. Wagner
11. Chatman
12. Donnal
You choose your team and I'll choose the next guys. You pick your team and I'll counter with my team and tell me what percentage of the time your team will win...70%?
That is how deep this UM team is. It's arguably the deepest team I have seen at UM in my lifetime...not as talented as the 89 team but even deeper.
I have told my Kentucky friend that UM will be ranked around #10 nationally after about 60 days.
UM is loaded. I don't think Wagner is going to redshirt. UM can physical down low and has a bench that goes 10 deep and when they get to 8-10...it's not like these guys are just spelling guys for minutes. They can play.
Players ranked.
1. LeVert
2. Walton
3. Dawkins
4. Irvin
5. Albrecht
6. Wilson
7. Doyle
8. Robinson
9. MAAR
10. Wagner
11. Chatman
12. Donnal
You choose your team and I'll choose the next guys. You pick your team and I'll counter with my team and tell me what percentage of the time your team will win...70%?
That is how deep this UM team is. It's arguably the deepest team I have seen at UM in my lifetime...not as talented as the 89 team but even deeper.
Not so fast my friend...MSU beat Northern Michigan by 41 last night. How could this team not be a final 4 participant with the mighty midget at the helm?
Yup, Valentine sure looked over rated tonight against Kansas......Spartans did too.
Laugh my butt off..
Looks like if Valentine stays healthy you got another Final Four team in those Spartans.
Final Four... Again ...with that 2016 recruiting class coming... Don't sleep on these Spartans... Just watch another final four... Nice WIN tonight...
When we get a #3 seed in the tourney seeding this Kansas win will be one of the reasons..
IZZO wins...When he retires He is the greatest coach in the history of State of Michigan sports... Period..
Looks like if Valentine stays healthy you got another Final Four team in those Spartans.
Final Four... Again ...with that 2016 recruiting class coming... Don't sleep on these Spartans... Just watch another final four... Nice WIN tonight...
When we get a #3 seed in the tourney seeding this Kansas win will be one of the reasons..
IZZO wins...When he retires He is the greatest coach in the history of State of Michigan sports... Period..
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At what point can we give Sparty the nickname "Not 68th, but not 1st". At what point does winning 4 games in a tournament, (when it takes 6) not enough? I'm surprised UK or Dookie even put up a Final 4 banner if they don't win it all. Well...UK will prolly have to take em down anyways.
I was surprised by that Spartan win last night. Thought McQuaid had no business on the floor and then buried a couple 3's at crunch time. Valentine will make you pull your hair out. I thought Eron Harris was suppose to be good (transfer from W. Vir.) and he looked very pedestrian. Donte Davis is long, lanky...McD AA...sank 2 critical FT at the end. Bess didn't play much in 2nd half but looked decent in 1st.
I have no idea what goes through Izzo's head.
My take: The team looks very energetic. Losing the up/down/sometimes unstoppable/sometimes barely there Brandon Dawson is probably a good thing. The Spartans seem to have enough guys who can maintain the energy.
Bottom line: If Valentine plays like that all year the Spartans will be very, very good. He can have woefully bad stretches at times...we'll see.
Watched a smidge of Maryland's squeaker over Georgetown last night too. Terrapins are good, but may not have the depth to go deep. MSU gets Terps only once this year..in EL. Thought Wisconsin looked dreadful in loss to W. Illinois the other night. Non factor. Haven't seen IU or Pur yet. Did see Swanigan had a nice debut however.
Haven't seen the Wolverines yet...but Beilein is a very good coach....and a very nice guy....hard to root against him even as I do...and I think UM will be more likely to be right there by March. I think MSU will be B1G winner or runner up at least.
Go Green. Good luck Blue.
I have no idea what goes through Izzo's head.
My take: The team looks very energetic. Losing the up/down/sometimes unstoppable/sometimes barely there Brandon Dawson is probably a good thing. The Spartans seem to have enough guys who can maintain the energy.
Bottom line: If Valentine plays like that all year the Spartans will be very, very good. He can have woefully bad stretches at times...we'll see.
Watched a smidge of Maryland's squeaker over Georgetown last night too. Terrapins are good, but may not have the depth to go deep. MSU gets Terps only once this year..in EL. Thought Wisconsin looked dreadful in loss to W. Illinois the other night. Non factor. Haven't seen IU or Pur yet. Did see Swanigan had a nice debut however.
Haven't seen the Wolverines yet...but Beilein is a very good coach....and a very nice guy....hard to root against him even as I do...and I think UM will be more likely to be right there by March. I think MSU will be B1G winner or runner up at least.
Go Green. Good luck Blue.
Dislike the guy, but Valentine is an outstanding collegiate player. Probable BIG player of the year, imo.
MSU beat the #4 team in the country last night without, what many were assuming was, their entire starting front-court; in Gavin Schilling and Marvin Clark. This could be and should be a very good MSU team once they get healthy. The versatility of Valentine is going to allow them to do so much on the offensive end. They have a lot of bodies in the 6'5" to 6'7" range and they're all pretty interchangeable. Advantage: Izzo.
MSU will be what they almost always are. Tough team that is at or near the top of the BIG with a real chance to go to the Final 4. How anyone ever expects differently I have no idea. Izzo is one of the handful of elite college coaches and has an elite program. The guy is always going to win. And the incoming class next year will only serve to extend that into the future for years.
That said, I think out squad is at least equal to his this year.
You never know. I don't think UM has the depth to match MSU, but Beilein is a wonderful coach and he always gets the best out of what he has. I don't know why the B1G sets this up so that we don't play a home and home with UM every year. Doesn't seem right. All I know is UM always shows up and is always a tough out. I expect them to be right there. It will be interesting to see how IU and Pur. fare vs. the State of Michigan teams.
The strength of the Umich team this year is its depth. Not the top end talent from the Burke, Stauskus, etc... years, but this squad is 10+ deep in solid options. I mean, there are folks advocating for Maar to redshirt because of a lack of available minutes!
Gotta imagine the conference is a MSU, UM and Maryland race for the top spot. I don't think IU or Purdue are quite at the level of the aforementioned 3. Should be an interesting season.
I'm not sure he is either.
Costello, Valentine, Forbes, Bess.....and Nairn or Schilling....or Davis. Marvin Clark is a sleepy, good player however.
You are. He was considered the consensus starter prior to his injury. Izzo said as much. Don't get me wrong, Bess is filling in admirably but he's undersized, underweight and under-experienced when compared to Clark who's just a superior basketball player at this point in their careers. Plus he's simply more of a true PF.
Michigan got probably the easiest road schedule of anyone in the big ten this year. Not playing at MSU is a big break. And not playing at IU, were they never ever win, is like a God given break. Guess the Big Ten higher ups really do like Michigan. Huge advantage.
UM..
Lack of toughness for sure
Lack of strength down low for sure
Poor rebounding team for sure
Defense just ok...especially down low
Perimeter teams ( JB's type teams ) like UM require NBA type talent to perform in the top tier ( Burke, Stauskas, McGary, Hardaway )
Levert is NBA talent for sure.. but this UM team will be hurt by their lack of toughness,poor rebounding, lack of physical strength, and low post defense...
The ceiling for them is Sweet 16... tops... and yes Levert is fantastic...
Lack of toughness for sure
Lack of strength down low for sure
Poor rebounding team for sure
Defense just ok...especially down low
Perimeter teams ( JB's type teams ) like UM require NBA type talent to perform in the top tier ( Burke, Stauskas, McGary, Hardaway )
Levert is NBA talent for sure.. but this UM team will be hurt by their lack of toughness,poor rebounding, lack of physical strength, and low post defense...
The ceiling for them is Sweet 16... tops... and yes Levert is fantastic...
Did not see my Spartans last night. Watched Duke struggle a little. Didn't think UM looked all that invincible vs. a so so opponent. Wisconsin lost to Georgetown. Wisconsin will not be a factor this year. Ohio State lost at home to Texas-Arlington. Think MSU should be a serious contender...way early tho.
Michigan State...from what I can tell...is much more energetic this year. As good as Brandon Dawson was (suppose to be) he was lethargic and indifferent a lot last year. The Spartans do not have that this year. Eron Harris is about the only guy Izzo has to harp on to play hard all the time.
Thought Michigan was experimenting a lot last night. They didn't look all that great to me, but I don't think it's because they aren't good. Beilein just figuring things out. They look young to me, however. That Wagner kid looks like he's 15. He can play tho. On MSU's side, McQuaid looks 15 too.
Michigan State...from what I can tell...is much more energetic this year. As good as Brandon Dawson was (suppose to be) he was lethargic and indifferent a lot last year. The Spartans do not have that this year. Eron Harris is about the only guy Izzo has to harp on to play hard all the time.
Thought Michigan was experimenting a lot last night. They didn't look all that great to me, but I don't think it's because they aren't good. Beilein just figuring things out. They look young to me, however. That Wagner kid looks like he's 15. He can play tho. On MSU's side, McQuaid looks 15 too.
In hindsight this post is hilarious. I especially like the "and Michigan is physical down low". Lol they looked like the softest team I have watched so far.
I respectfully disagree with the original poster. Michigan must be the most selfish and soft team ive ever seen. This looks like aNIT team maybe.
I agreed with the original poster before the season began and thought things would unfortunately change starting next year once MSU's monster class comes in.
After a few games into the season, even more unfortunately based on what I have seen, I doubt we will finish even even with MSU let alone ahead of them sadly. It will probably be lopsided like last year and the days before 2011-2012 season. The college athletics nightmare sadly continues.
After a few games into the season, even more unfortunately based on what I have seen, I doubt we will finish even even with MSU let alone ahead of them sadly. It will probably be lopsided like last year and the days before 2011-2012 season. The college athletics nightmare sadly continues.
The lack of inside game and team play (8 assists?!) is not a good combination. I dont think gimmicky systems like JB's work well for a program...you can get hot and go on a run if you have the talent but it's hard to stay hot behind the arc consistently without elite talent and even then....Lavert looks like he has talent but he's already given up on the team and is playing for draft position....at least that is the way it looks at this point.
Meanwhile it looks like State is better that i can even have hoped so far. It's early but i dont think contending for big ten and national titles is unrealistic.
Meanwhile it looks like State is better that i can even have hoped so far. It's early but i dont think contending for big ten and national titles is unrealistic.
With UK losing, MSU is likely to rise to #1 so i guess youd say they are super duper overrated now, correct?
Yeah, I know but we Green folks are pretty excited and optimistic considering that we usually start so slowly and develop over the course of a season. I had to throw a little barb in there considering how the early results undermine what most of us thought was a ridiculous prediction by the OP.
To be serious for a sec, I do like the Wagner kid a lot.
To be serious for a sec, I do like the Wagner kid a lot.
As a Spartan, as well, I tend to wish the Spartans not be on the top of the mountain this early. I guess the year they had Magic and won it all they were #1 in December...fell back with some losses in January and never returned to #1 until they beat Indiana Sate.
I won't be upset if they lose a game or two along the way. I am sure, barring injuries, that come March they will be ready to got right back at it.
I really don't need them to be #1 now, however. Nice...but it just adds a little more unnecessary stress to the team if you ask me.
No Flame here...
Due to rebounding, defense and strength in the post... or a lack of it... UM has a ceiling this year of Sweet 16... max... we can all see it with our eyes... UM is a good team but defense, rebounding and post game will limit them to good not great...
MSU has the potential at another Final Four run... and once you get there anything can happen... they have to stay healthy.. and it depends on their draw and in the ncaa tourney as well as the health whether they can reach their potential or not
Due to rebounding, defense and strength in the post... or a lack of it... UM has a ceiling this year of Sweet 16... max... we can all see it with our eyes... UM is a good team but defense, rebounding and post game will limit them to good not great...
MSU has the potential at another Final Four run... and once you get there anything can happen... they have to stay healthy.. and it depends on their draw and in the ncaa tourney as well as the health whether they can reach their potential or not
Hey Digger. I didn't even catch your hijinks and hilarity here. Funny stuff. Beilein, with "MAC talent" according to you is as successful or more successful than every other Big Ten coach the last 5 1/3 years in wins, conference titles, NCAA tournament record wins.
It's early but my November prediction might still come true. As noted in my title, typically overrated Sparty...
Waaaa. They are hurt. Waaaa, the refs are calling the game the way they are supposed to. Waaaaa, they are 3-4 and getting ready to host Maryland. Should be an interesting weekend.
Meantime, UM could still swoon easily, but we have taken care of business with a likely first round pick missing 5 straight games.
It's amazing how these things can turn. UM really looked pretty soft a month or so ago and now look like they actually compete on the defensive end. Give JB and staff credit.
I think UM is at best a sweet 16 team if they get the right opponents but make no mistake...UM is better than they were a month or so ago.
RM
Did MSU just lose to Nebraska at home with Maryland up next? Keep this up and the NIT might sound pretty good.
