Buffalo Bills doing full stadium and only allowing vaccinated fans in
- Thread starter Trouten25
- Start date
Sure. But transmission will always be a risk. Always. The risk will never be zero. And (IMO) public willingness to accept restrictions will evaporate as the level or risk goes down. At some point (late this year or early next?), the restrictions will end.
(I do think that the rules governing international travel will persist much longer.)
I’m not debating on whether or not getting the vaccine is a good idea, already mentioned I’ve had my first jab. Once everyone has had the chance to get the vaccine, it really boils down to personal choice. And the fact of the matter is there will be many that choose not to, and the virus will do what virus’s do. And at that point it will be much like the flu, we’ll have vaccination options, increased herd immunity, better treatment etc etc. Some will still get sick and die, but life will go on just like it always has.
60k people die from the flu every year, are we going to start requiring flu shot cards for anyone that wants attend a school play, concert, or sporting event? And to be clear I really dont have an issue with teams making this requirement this year, we’re still easing out if this thing so a bit more precaution won’t hurt. Once this thing is well under control I don’t want to be showing my papers to walk into a large gathering.
Did you read the full article? 2 things. It mentions there is no proof anyone died from covid from the vaccine and it even mentions that one person died from a car wreck. 2. 966 out of 65 million people is statically insignificant in any study. That is not to say that those peoples deaths are insignificant I am talking from a true statistical stand point.Well but as of March 8th almost a 1000 had died since receiving the vaccine according to newsweek:
Fact Check: Have 966 people died after receiving the COVID vaccine?
The U.S. COVID vaccine rollout has seen over 90 million people receive at least one dose of a jab, according to CDC data as of March 7.www.newsweek.com
With that said the odds on someone out of the 65 million people who received the vaccine dying from something other than covid are greater the dying from covid after receiving the vaccine. I should also note at the rate of 966/65million that works out to be about 4900 deahs per 330 miillion people which is the current population of the U.S. The U.S. to date has lost almost 600,000 people to covid. Currently we are losing about 1000 human lives to covid per day. At that rate we would surpass the 4900 deaths in less than a week.
Like I said....show me a peer reviewed study and I will follow that. Until then people are grasping at straws to fit their agenda.
Huh?
My wife and I are vaccinated, our 2 daughters are not. Last week my 20 year old got Covid (had every symptom minus breathing issues thankfully) at her university and had to come home to quarantine. She passed it to her 13 year old sister (only had minor symptoms). My wife and I haven't skipped a beat taking care of 2 Covid patients. Imagine that...
I'm asking this respectfully as I'm truly interested in the logic here.
But when people get agitated about hypotheticals like this, what exactly is the point or what does that solve? I think reasonable people would agree it'd be silly to assume this will be a thing long-term as you've already pointed to the flu as another example. When COVID becomes more flu-ish in it's impact over time, why would you think/expect any of these initial steps/procedures to continue?
So if one can assume that won't be necessary, why get all up in arms about a hypothetical that common sense would tell you is a very low likelihood?
Actual reading and critical thinking is not very common on one side of this issue. I've humored posters that link articles trying to make a case against mitigation or the vaccine, and more often than not the article says the exact opposite of what the poster purports it to. It's incredible how dumb people are.
Very good take and a very simple answer to your question at the end.....because common sense is a very scarce commodity these days.
Here is some data for you.
First off, I’m not all up in arms. Just having a conversation, and yes much of it is hypothetical, and maybe I’m off base and things will go back to 100% normal at some point. But I also feel this is a slippery slope, you know full well that even when we’re to a manageable level, there will be many that will still want restrictions in place.
cool buddy. Our conversation is completed. I get you, I get why you're choosing not to. All good
Here you go. the global IFR (Infection Fatality Rate) is .15%! Said another way, 99.85% of ALL infected survive. These IFR numbers INCLUDE the elderly, which means that the IFR in younger humans is even less.
Is that how you dismiss opposing facts? Does a global IFR of .15% (99.85% survive) really call for this hysteria that you seem to enjoy propagating?
Well....I guess this all just feels like something to be upset about and it's entirely unnecessary.
I don't see why people would want restrictions in place when COVID is more under control. Who out there is screaming for restrictions because of the flu? Rhetorical question that demonstrates if people aren't beating a drum for more restrictions for the flu then why would they for COVID? Doesn't make any sense.
How long are you going to keep the same conversation going? You said, "you like to argue". Pot meet kettle. I've said multiple times now that the conversation is over and I understand why you're choosing not to get a vaccine after having COVID. Is that really not good enough for you at this point? Regardless of if I agree or disagree with you, I feel like this back-and-forth is played out at this point. Don't you?
It takes two to tango. Any thoughts on that peer reviewed data that I sent, or do you just ignore opposing points of FACT and move on?
This is just one more in a long list of reasons not to attend an NFL football game. Ho-humm . . . .
Here is some critical thinking for you. Global Infection Fatality Rates (IFR) are 0.15%. This INCLUDES the elderly. 99.85% of COVID infected humans survive, including elderly populations.
No, it takes you just stopping your shtick at this point. You already had one thread locked today, you aiming for another? You just want to pick fights at this point. I get it. Death rate seems to be THE ONLY factor in your decisions, and if that's it, cool man, more power to you. Yes, you're very unlikely to get infected and die. Cool.
Have you lived through the last 12+ months? Things have been a little crazy.
I didn’t say anyone was screaming for restrictions because of the flu. My concern is we won’t be able to completely let go of covid restriction for something that will likely act much like the flu.
It’s Ok to have an opinion, while also being open to the other side of the discussion, and also to have concerns based on our experiences throughout the pandemic.
There’s ~330 million Americans. 0.15% of 330 million is about ~500,000. Current U.S. death toll is 578,209. Not sure what the U.S. IFR is but pretty obvious it is more than 0.15%.
I don't recall bashing you for your opinion. If that's how this came off, I apologize as that's not the intent.
My point is the last 12 months will be irrelevant 2-3 years from now when we (hopefully) have COVID under control and it is as detrimental to normal society as the every day flu is.
At that point, personally I don't see the point in throwing out hypotheticals about the protocols that are being introduced now to mitigate the virus because the world will be a very different place. Again, I think common sense tells us that since we don't have crazy protocols in place for the flu it's HIGHLY unlikely that we'll have them for COVID. As in, so unlikely it's pointless to even debate it. But that's just my opinion.
It just seems to me like people like to work themselves into a fervor over things needlessly. Which is why I was asking more about where you're coming from on this one.
And what about your shtick? Death rate is the only thing that matters to the whole world. Have you not noticed the “death count scoreboards” on every news channel FOR THE PAST FRICKING YEAR? I present peer reviewed data showing survivability of 99.85% for ALL - and you dismiss it. Your bias must be rooted in the fact that you already got poked, which I understand completely. Nonetheless, bias can blind you to facts.
What happens on a global scale may not matter for Americans. In America, we have 578,223 deaths according to John Hopkins data. That amounts to a 0.17% population fatality rate. If the 0.15% IFR held true in America, the entire county must have had covid and some of it twice. For whatever reason, countries such as India have been spared to a large extent vis a vis America an others that have been hit so hard. The study may be true, but it really doesn't matter for purposes of what we have experienced here.
If you’ve read and understood that study why not explain how it worked and what they found?
No problem, I’m just fine.
I never suggested that we were going to add restrictions for anything else, I was only using the flu as a comparative. My only concern, and I’m in no way fired up about it, is that Covid has obviously changed the way we view things, and that we may have some trouble walking back some of the restrictions. Simple as that.
Okay, I promise this is my last response to you.
This conversation has gone all for too long and honestly, I'm just tired of a 10 page thread at this point and kind of have to work.
I've done extensive research. My entire wife's side (two CRNA's and a PA) of the family is in the eye of this mess right here in one of the hardest hit spots in the country. My perspective comes from first hand perspective of those working in the hospitals right now dealing with this.
I also take into account long term impacts of having COVID, that man are experiencing. I watched a kid, now adult (28), who I coached years ago, contract COVID and spend a month in the hospital, on a vent for several days, and now is on a heart transplant list.
With all of this being said, I get you got COVID, and it impacted you minimally. You should be very thankful, and I am honestly happy you're healthy. That's awesome.
The main thing I have a problem with is people like you continuing your rushed dialogue. You know that mrna vaccine study has been around for going on 40 years right? I also put my money where my mouth is and I was part of Beaumont's AstraZeneca vaccine trial. I did it because I wanted to help people, because I was trying to help people like yourself decide if it's safe or not. I did indeed get the vaccine, second shot in January, and I am happy I participated and happy that the world is a safer place because I helped.
If you choose not to get the vaccine, more power to you.
My question is how did they reach that conclusion? How did the study work? If you’ve read and understood it you should be able to briefly summarize its method and findings.
I can imagine certain jobs where they make a flu shot a requirement for employment, too...assume there are some where it's mandatory, now that I think of it....
Global yes, but in the U.S. we account for almost 25% of the world fatalities....but you keep trying! The fatalities would be much higher without mitigation. Take out Japan China Korea New Zealand Australia Vietnam and more where they have mitigated with over 90% mask wearing and statistically those numbers change drastically. I am talking about what is happening here in the U.S. but since you went global I thought I would enlighten. Again 4900 deaths if the article was true vs 600000 we have already and climbing again. It all comes down to compliance with mitigation and vaccines. There is a reason Japan is not allowing outside spectators at the olympics. They don't want anyone from a nondisciplined country to spread covid all over their country.
My only problem with this is people keep comparing covid to the flu and it's not even close. Right now the only end to this is mitigation and vaccination. The flu has not accounted for 600000 in the last 10 years combined.
I do agree that there is a light at the end of the tunnel as long as we can get people to keep mitigating and get 80% of the population to get vaccinated otherwise covid will continue to be the bad gift that keeps on giving.
My opinion, live healthy. Lose weight, lower your blood pressure, get your A1C as low as possible and your worries are minimal. Interesting how you mention one person with a heart issue, which is an awful predicament, and one which I will pray for. My question is this: How is your one example of a horrible complication superior to my example of a local (Middleville) 44 yr old asst. principle dying after being vaccinated? Why the anger and push back on me bringing this poor mans’ plight to the forefront?
If you’re referring to my comparing covid to the flu. I am referring to the point where everyone who has wanted the vaccination will have had it, and we’ll be closer to herd immunity. If things go as we expect covid will likely be comparable to the flu in the not too distant future, it won’t be killing 600k per year but it will still be around and something we deal with.
Well, Japan is an island. We are not. How do you feel about infected people being let into our country and then dispersed throughout? Do these people come from non disciplined countries (your words)? What good does it do if you mitigate, but we are letting COVID positives or no known COVID status humans in? Are you suggesting that we operate like Japan and close our borders?
