I chuckled a little when I heard the ESPN studio guy say he didn't

[Reality Man]

expect UM to get back to the upper echelon of the Big Ten this year because they were too reliant on the 3 pt shot.

He basically said UM doesn't get anything from the #5 spot. Paraphrasing. So let's leave off Wagner/Doyle because UM needs to get something from that spot to go far but when has a JB system not been reliant on the 3 pt shot.

Trey Burke anyone...Kansas. Stauskas, THJ, etc. You get the point. UM is going to shoot 3 pointers until their arms fall off.

Maybe he was really saying that UM needs some production from the #5 and the #4 and only shoot 40% of the time with 3 pointers.

Let's be completely honest here...JB wants 3 point shooters otherwise his system isn't very good because of other flaws. They have to shoot 3 pointers but need guys who can make them sprinkled in with a few other non 3 point shooters who can do other things mid-range or around the hoop (Morgan/McGary/GR3).

My point is UM prefers to rely on the 3 point shot because it's basically a slightly longer 2 pt perimeter shot and they don't have inside guys who play a post up game. They shoot 3 pointers, do alley oops, drive and dish for some easy baskets and fast break. It's what they do. It's JB ball.

They will always be reliant on the 3 pt shoot. I can't recall a JB team that wasn't dependent on making 3 point shots.



RM

 

[maelfan]

expect UM to get back to the upper echelon of the Big Ten this year because they were too reliant on the 3 pt shot.

He basically said UM doesn't get anything from the #5 spot. Paraphrasing. So let's leave off Wagner/Doyle because UM needs to get something from that spot to go far but when has a JB system not been reliant on the 3 pt shot.

Trey Burke anyone...Kansas. Stauskas, THJ, etc. You get the point. UM is going to shoot 3 pointers until their arms fall off.

Maybe he was really saying that UM some production from the #5 and the #4 and only shoot 40% of the time with 3 pointers.

Let's be completely honest here...JB wants 3 point shooters otherwise his system isn't very good because of other flaws. They have to shoot 3 pointers but need guys who can make them sprinkled in with a few other non 3 point shooters who can do other things mid-range or around the hoop (Morgan/McGary/GR3).

My point is UM prefers to rely on the 3 point shot because it's basically a slightly longer 2 pt perimeter shot and they don't have inside guys who play a post up game. They shoot 3 pointers, do alley oops, drive and dish for some easy baskets and fast break. It's what they do. It's JB ball.

They will always be reliant on the 3 pt shoot. I can't recall a JB team that wasn't dependent on making 3 point shots.



RM

 

[maelfan]

expect UM to get back to the upper echelon of the Big Ten this year because they were too reliant on the 3 pt shot.

He basically said UM doesn't get anything from the #5 spot. Paraphrasing. So let's leave off Wagner/Doyle because UM needs to get something from that spot to go far but when has a JB system not been reliant on the 3 pt shot.

Trey Burke anyone...Kansas. Stauskas, THJ, etc. You get the point. UM is going to shoot 3 pointers until their arms fall off.

Maybe he was really saying that UM some production from the #5 and the #4 and only shoot 40% of the time with 3 pointers.

Let's be completely honest here...JB wants 3 point shooters otherwise his system isn't very good because of other flaws. They have to shoot 3 pointers but need guys who can make them sprinkled in with a few other non 3 point shooters who can do other things mid-range or around the hoop (Morgan/McGary/GR3).

My point is UM prefers to rely on the 3 point shot because it's basically a slightly longer 2 pt perimeter shot and they don't have inside guys who play a post up game. They shoot 3 pointers, do alley oops, drive and dish for some easy baskets and fast break. It's what they do. It's JB ball.

They will always be reliant on the 3 pt shoot. I can't recall a JB team that wasn't dependent on making 3 point shots.



RM

I'm so sick of analysts overanalyzing the use of the three point shot. It's just a damn jump shot from 20 feet. Before the three point line existed, players took just as many jump shots from 19 feet, 21 feet, 23 feet and beyond. Hell, I don't think Scott Skiles ever took a jump shot within 23 feet. It is such a lazy way to analyze a team. If the line did not exist, nobody would say that UM takes too many 22 foot jump shots. They didn't back in the 70s and early 80s. They wouldnt now.

 

[Reality Man]

I think the analysts just can't figure out how a team can just be perimeter oriented. I think the JB system can work with the right talent (good shooters) and a role player at the #5. It's crazy but it works because it spreads the floor and he is getting 3 points rather than 2 pts.

It's a quirky but entertaining system but JB rides a fine line more than other coaches because it's heavily tilted to having great shooters. He needs a Stauskas or Robinson or THJ along with 4 guys who can score from the perimeter.

The JB system is a really good system for a guy who can't recruit the big time NBA types. JB has been bailed out somewhat by Robinson this year plus some Wagner. Robinson was a transfer and Wagner comes in from abroad.

I understand why diggersdad doesn't like this system but it works when JB has the shooting talent.



RM

 

[Mroad]

I think the analysts are saying if you are one dimensional, primarily an outside shooting team, the good teams will take that part of your game away and force you to beat them inside. They are not sure we have the inside game to counteract this type strategy against the good teams.

 

[Reality Man]

But UM doesn't have that option based on their system. If the point is UM will live and die with the 3 pt shot...then I agree. However, that is the JB system for better or worse.

Of course UM needs easy baskets and pnr stuff but unless his guys are making 3 pt shots...his system isn't going to beat good teams. His system relies on great shooters or it collapses. It's like a high wire act.


RM

 

[Mroad]

I think when Beilein gets a highly skilled big guy his offense is taken to a whole new level. I would say McGary is the only big guy he has brought in that fits this description. I think Wagner could develop into this type player but he will need to gain more size, strength and experience to take his game to that level. It's important to point out that McGary was 20 years old during his freshman year while Wagner is only 18 years old which is a big difference. Wagner has the potential to be a great player when he's 20 years old.

 

[Reality Man]

LONG

McGary was the exception to the rule when it comes to highly rated 'bigs'. Wagner is from Germany where the competition to land him was non-existent.

JB is not going to get a highly touted 'big' to come play for him 99% of the time. I could see a 'big' possibly coming to play for UM if he was a Dan Issel type of player.

It has surprised me that level of difficulty that JB has attracting highly rated guards but again most of these guys want to jump to the pro's and have a system that revolves around their skills.

JB is a system coach along the same lines as Rich Rod. He is. How many people run anything remotely close to what JB runs?

Now...Teske and Davis. These guys aren't All-American guys. JB gets on most of these guys early. I think Teske sees himself as a shot blocker/defensive guy which I can see being attracted to the JB system.

Here is my point. JB is the basketball spread system. JB is like some innovative Paul Westhead version of basketball. Different but unique. Westhead took basketball to a place it had never been. JB runs something that you usually don't see...guards and forwards jacking up lots of 3's. People still don't get it and resist it's effectiveness.

It is a hard offense to stop IF.....IF...JB has a #5 who can cut and do the garbage stuff and a #4 who can score and rebound and have guards that can shoot from the perimeter. It goes against almost everything you see on any level. Normally basketball now is a guard who facilitates and penetrates and then dishes for assists. A center who you throw the ball down low who demands a double team and then kicks out or can score plus a PF who can be physical down low.

JB goes completely against that concept. It's bizarro world with JB. Up is down. JB plays for 3 points and matchup problems. It all comes down to with JB is whether he evaluates and scouts people and then can develop them.

If he gets the right guys he can beat anyone because 19 ft 3 pointers are not that hard to make along with a couple of guys who can drive and cut for easy layups. It's just hard to find guys who can consistently score from 3 point land but now he has LeVert and Robinson and lots of skilled players.

Do you know what the JB system is like in the NBA? It's like recruiting Jamal Crawford and Steph Curry along with John Stockton plus Noel and Brad Sellers. It's goofy as hell but works if the guys can score and Robinson and Stauskas and Burke and THJ and LeVert have all made JB look good. When he didn't have those guys (for the most part)....he doesn't look as good.

It all comes down to JB recognizing who shoots lights out. Dawkins...talented and good but didn't hit the jackpot. LeVert and Stauskas...developed and hit the jackpot. Robinson...he won the lotto.



RM

 

[diggersdad]

expect UM to get back to the upper echelon of the Big Ten this year because they were too reliant on the 3 pt shot.

He basically said UM doesn't get anything from the #5 spot. Paraphrasing. So let's leave off Wagner/Doyle because UM needs to get something from that spot to go far but when has a JB system not been reliant on the 3 pt shot.

Trey Burke anyone...Kansas. Stauskas, THJ, etc. You get the point. UM is going to shoot 3 pointers until their arms fall off.

Maybe he was really saying that UM needs some production from the #5 and the #4 and only shoot 40% of the time with 3 pointers.

Let's be completely honest here...JB wants 3 point shooters otherwise his system isn't very good because of other flaws. They have to shoot 3 pointers but need guys who can make them sprinkled in with a few other non 3 point shooters who can do other things mid-range or around the hoop (Morgan/McGary/GR3).

My point is UM prefers to rely on the 3 point shot because it's basically a slightly longer 2 pt perimeter shot and they don't have inside guys who play a post up game. They shoot 3 pointers, do alley oops, drive and dish for some easy baskets and fast break. It's what they do. It's JB ball.

They will always be reliant on the 3 pt shoot. I can't recall a JB team that wasn't dependent on making 3 point shots.



RM

I actually think the pundits are pretty correct here. If you look at the strength in the Big Ten and look at MSU, Maryland, Purdue and possibly Indiana, you see strong inside games. I would bet we don't win one of those games, because of our weak inside game. Unfortunately we cannot be a consistent champion in a league built on brawn with the weakness we have shown on the inside. I don't dislike JB, in fact I respect the heck out of him....but the critics are right. We are a middle of the B10 team, at best.

 

[Mroad]

RM, although it's great getting a McGary type player for Beilein's offense, it would also be very helpful to have a big, strong, athletic big guy. A player that may not necessarily be the best offensive player but is able to defend, rebound and protect the rim...kind of like a bigger version of Jordan Morgan. It would be great if we had a bunch of three point specialists that are also able to handle the ball, along with a junk yard dog in the middle that brings some toughness and is a rebounding specialist. I think this type of big would also be very effective in Beilein's offense.

 

[Reality Man]

I actually think the pundits are pretty correct here. If you look at the strength in the Big Ten and look at MSU, Maryland, Purdue and possibly Indiana, you see strong inside games. I would bet we don't win one of those games, because of our weak inside game. Unfortunately we cannot be a consistent champion in a league built on brawn with the weakness we have shown on the inside. I don't dislike JB, in fact I respect the heck out of him....but the critics are right. We are a middle of the B10 team, at best.

I agree with your overall point that these other teams in the BT has more brawn and talent but the key question to ask is if you don't like the JB system...what is the alternative. UM would have to get a big recruiter to play the same game. Amaker didn't succeed relative to his peers.

Who is this guy they are going to get to beat out Izzo & Matta. JB does it in this own way and style. Maybe the next coach can make the high end recruit game work but it's a tough game.



RM

 

[diggersdad]

I agree with your overall point that these other teams in the BT has more brawn and talent but the key question to ask is if you don't like the JB system...what is the alternative. UM would have to get a big recruiter to play the same game. Amaker didn't succeed relative to his peers.

Who is this guy they are going to get to beat out Izzo & Matta. JB does it in this own way and style. Maybe the next coach can make the high end recruit game work but it's a tough game.



RM

We will always be a mid level Big Ten team. Every few years we will look good, but overall we will always be mediocre compared to the real teams in the Big Ten. Evidently, given the extension, we are happy with mediocre.

 

[JRMSU]

This is no flame...
Its a lack of defensive intensity, toughness, rebounding that is the flaw in the JB system

JB is a FANTASTIC offensive coach.. but it is the lack of attention to the other side of the ball and the rebounding that will limit this team to a Sweet 16 Ceiling.. will they make the sweet 16 ?.. who knows.. but that is their ceiling... they can only get so hot from the 3... eventually a lack of rebounding and defense will kill this year's squad..

Lavert is an NBA talent for sure.. JB is a great offensive coach for sure... but the holes in this team will get them in the end..

 

[diggersdad]

Won't make the NCAA's. Mediocre program at best.