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Even the President of OU doesn't understand the concept

R

Reality Man

Heisman
Feb 9, 2002
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of free speech. Can you really misuse free speech? Sounds to me like America should revise it's 'free speech' to no 'hate speech'. I haven't listed to the video since I don't particular like to hear racist chants or watching frat boys.

I lived with a couple of frat boys early in my college experience...not my cup of tea..and these guys tend to be boozing womanizers...if I had to generalize. No offense to you fellow frat guys.

Again...the purpose of the post is to question whether America really has free speech anymore? The other part is I do like the fact that these boys are now going to get their comeuppance. These guys are truly an embarrassment to humanity.

Explain to me why an American citizen can't express a negative or derogatory word/thought?



Reality Man



http://sports.yahoo.com/blogs/ncaaf-dr-saturday/oklahoma-players-and-coach-bob-stoops-protest-sae-s-racist-chant--fraternity-banned-from-campus-154333597.html;_ylt=AwrSbm5Mcf5UgJ0Aa.lXNyoA;_ylu=X3oDMTEybzBwaGVvBGNvbG8DZ3ExBHBvcwMxBHZ0aWQDUTFNMDFfMQRzZWMDc
 
Re: PLOP!!!! *

"Free Speach" is a law so that means these idiots won't be going to jail. You can't say whatever you want and expect no consequences. If that were the case when i say something stupid to my wife i would just tell her "Freedom of Speech! You can't get mad"
 
Actually it's you who does not understand the concept of free speech

Were these guys arrested? Freedom of speech essentially protects you from getting arrested for something you say (with the obvious caveat of threats, etc). Freedom of speech does not protect you from getting fired from your job, or having your organization removed from campus.

Some people think they can say whatever they want because of freedom of speech. Sure, you can and you won't get arrested for it, but you absolutely can face other repercussions for saying things.
 
Re: Actually it's you who does not understand the concept of free speech

The concept of Free Speech by our forefathers was to allow the freedom to discuss issues involving the government, both positive and negative. A necessity in a democracy. Not as most people refer to the principle, the right to say anything they want.
 
Re: Actually it's you who does not understand the concept of free speech

Right. It reminds me of a line from Talladega Nights. Ricky Bobby says "with all due respect..." and then goes on to insult the crap out of someone and they get pissed. Then he goes, "but I said with all due respect!"

Some people think that there are laws in place to protect them from everything if they say incredibly dumb things. That's not what those laws say, and that's not why they were made.
 
Call your boss an a-hole (which is your right).

Then explain free speech to him when your azz gets terminated (his right).




This post was edited on 3/10 11:10 AM by SkunkBear
 
For some of you who don't quite understand the concept of

free speech. Sounds to me like Americans ought to just amend the constitution and get on with it's new socially and politically correct speech.


Since the 1980s, a number of laws have been passed that attempt to regulate or ban "hate speech,"
which is defined as utterances, displays,or expressions of racial, religious, or sexual bias.
The U.S. Supreme Court has generally invalidated such laws on the ground that they infringe
First Amendment rights. In R.A.V. v. City of[/I] St. Paul[/I], 505 U.S. 377, 112 S. Ct. 2538, 120 L. Ed. 2d 305 (1992),
the Court invalidated the city of St. Paul's hate-crime ordinance, ruling that it unconstitutionally infringed free speech. The defendant in that case had been prosecuted
for burning a cross on the lawn of an African-American family's residence.
 
Theoretical example: I'm a student in a University course

a test is being given. 5 minutes into the exam, I stand up and announce: "the answers to questions 1-5 are C, B, D, True, and the square root of 2."


Now, my behavior is unquestionably acting against the University's "code of conduct." (every University has one of these)


In that example, can I claim "free speech" if/when the University tries to expel me for my behavior?


Where is the line at which a "free speech claim" overcomes the University's right to uphold their "code of conduct"?

This post was edited on 3/10 2:57 PM by michnittlion
 
Re: PLOP!!!! *


Originally posted by Heisenburg:
"Free Speach" is a law so that means these idiots won't be going to jail. You can't say whatever you want and expect no consequences. If that were the case when i say something stupid to my wife i would just tell her "Freedom of Speech! You can't get mad"
Click to expand...
"E-e-ee-e-ee-ee-e-e".
 
Really? #5 is easy: the capital of Ohio is "the square root of 2"

Look over there, klemman and nddecker1 are listening to me! They're changing their answers!
 
Nope...still don't get it...

'code of conduct' is just another way of saying university rule/law. Correct?

In the context of the speech...individual(s) expressed a racial bias. This is protected free speech.

Now to the examples at hand.


The racial bigotry expressed did not intend to incite violence. That group of individuals was not trying to provoke violence. Yelling fire in a crowded theatre so to speak.

In the example of the testing case...stating the answers to a test is going against the agreed protocol of the test. If I agree to take a test under the guidelines of a class...why would I think free speech is given to me to disclose the answers? Isn't taking a class usually subject to a set of protocol vs. expressing racist thoughts in a non controlled setting?

You are definitely not comparing apples to oranges....but cherries to onions.



Here is what some of you are saying...you have basically unemployment or non educational free speech. You can say whatever you want as long as no one sees or hears your comments.

Sorry guys...free speech is accepting ignorant and uneducated thought even when posted on video. True tolerance is having to listen to offensive speech.


Reality Man
 
Re: Nope...still don't get it...

Wow, you definitely don't get it.

Freedom of speech, as stated in the constitution "Religion and Expression. Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances."

Please show me where Congress made these laws that the kids broke. Every university has a student handbook, and if you break the rules in the handbook, they punish you. Do you have a boss? Go in your boss' office and call them a fat sack of crap who never gets anything done, and they're a waste of company money. When they fire you, tell them you're allowed to say it because "Freedom of Speech!" and let me know what they say.

Attending a university is subject to a set of protocol which can include anything and everything under the sun, and that protocol is something you have to agree with before you attend the school. Going to college is a privilege, and a privilege that the university can revoke. People do not have a "right" to go to college, which is why some are accepted and some are denied.

You are unbelievably misinformed over what free speech is, and you need to understand what free speech really is, and not what you THINK free speech is.
 
You're an idiot...just expressing my freedom of speech.

As with any freedom comes responsibility. These ignorant students are free to express their views, but now must face the responsibility for doing so. If that means they are kick out of school or their frat or later unable to get a job that's part of the deal. No one is denying them the ability to say anything. But one must be held accountable for what one says, including myself for calling you an idiot. You can't honestly believe that people should be free to say whatever they want wherever they want and whenever they want without being held accountable do you? There is no way anyone can argue that there should not be consequences for their actions. And yeah I'll take full responsibility for calling you an idiot.

In addition, going to any institution of higher education is not a right. It is a privilege and one reserved for those that demonstrate the cognitive ability to meet the standards of that institution. These students proofed they did not meet those standards and the university not only has the right, but the duty to dismiss these students, especially in consideration that it is a public institution funded by the public for the public good.

This post was edited on 3/10 4:36 PM by Knuckles101
 
Re: Go ahead and read this....you're welcome.

Do I agree that people overreact to things such as a twitter "joke" or something else of the sort? Absolutely, and they let self righteous idiots affect their decisions. But that still doesn't make it a "freedom of speech" issue.

The 1st Amendment doesn't allow Congress to make a law that prohibits your freedom of speech. That's it, it has nothing to do with private or public enterprise. Freedom of speech would be violated if these kids were arrested for what they did.
 
Amazing that you still get how the courts have ruled on this topic..

hope this helps you out. Please see link too. Note the caveat of school sponsored event. How about this..give me the reason under the law the university could prevent this expression of speech or punish this speech?





Freedom of speech is the political right to communicate one's opinions and ideas. The term freedom of expression is sometimes used synonymously, but includes any act of seeking, receiving and imparting information or ideas, regardless of the medium used.

Governments restrict speech with varying limitations. Common limitations on speech relate to harm principle depends upon whether influencing a third party's opinions or actions adversely to the second party constitutes such harm or not.

http://www.uscourts.gov/educational-resources/get-involved/constitution-activities/first-amendment/free-speech.aspx
 
Re: Amazing that you still get how the courts have ruled on this topic..

Holy crap, how do you not get it? That ALL is in reference to getting ARRESTED for saying something. These kids didn't get arrested. No government rule or law has ANY stipulations on whether a university can or cannot expel someone for saying something. How do you not see this?
 
Those students, when they accepted the University's offer of admission

ALSO accepted the University's "student rights and responsibilities code." I've provided a link to that code at the bottom.


Nobody is FORCED to accept admission (if offered) to the University of Oklahoma. These students knew that adhering to the "student rights and responsibilities code" is part of the deal ..... and per the University's judgment, they violated that code. As such, they are subject to University penalties, which include anything up to expulsion. All that is also spelled out in the attached.


Admittedly, the University may be doing a somewhat "wide" interpretation of (1) "abusive conduct" and (13) "mental harassment" in expelling these students. And yes, there are legitimate concerns about "kangaroo courts" and such on college campuses (most well known, the student recently kicked out of Vassar College due to sexual misconduct claims).


But the University absolutely has the right to take action here. In my hypothetical test, I would be violating the University's "academic integrity code" (there is also a link to that on Oklahoma's website). In this case, the students' behavior "went against the agreed protocol, as the students themselves agreed upon when they accepted admission to the University."


I do not believe the doors to ALL higher education should be shut upon them forever. These students can go attend the University of Central Oklahoma or somewhere else. But as for the University of Oklahoma --- they can appeal, but ultimately, they only have themselves to blame if/when THAT door gets shut forever.

This post was edited on 3/10 5:36 PM by michnittlion

This isn't Nam ... there are rules
 
Did you read that link you provided???

It says that the "Bethel School District vs. Fraser" Supreme Court ruling indicates that freedom of speech does NOT[/I] include the right for students to make an obscene speech at a school sponsored event.


Read the Wiki page on that ruling --- the school district suspended the kid for 3 days for a speech given at a school assembly. Suspension was on grounds that the speech was disruptive behavior as well as vulgar and offensive. The Supreme Court upheld the suspension.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bethel_School_District_v._Fraser
 
Originally posted by Reality Man:

The President/University is engaging in regulated free speech outside of cetain parameters. These kids (should call them aholes) going to have legal recourse. University overstepped it's authority.



Reality Man

Link: http://www.washingtonpost.com/news/volokh-conspiracy/wp/2015/03/10/no-a-public-university-may-not-expel-students-for-racist-speech/[/URL]
Click to expand...
You cannot be this uninformed about what free speech means. My goodness dude. Step into reality man.
Posted from Rivals Mobile
 
You're adding layers of nonsense to a real simple concept.

Save for matters of national security, Freedom of Speech means you can make any statement about your government you wish without fear of government reprisal.

That's it. That's all.

Statements about anything or anyone else and you're on your own. You're free to offend or slander anyone or anything you want, given that you understand you're guaranteed no First Amendment protection from social or commercial repercussions.

Open your mouth, better know the rules. Better understand the consequences.

Not hard to understand.
 
Re: You're adding layers of nonsense to a real simple concept.


Originally posted by SkunkBear:
Save for matters of national security, Freedom of Speech means you can make any statement about your government you wish without fear of government reprisal.

That's it. That's all.

Statements about anything or anyone else and you're on your own. You're free to offend or slander anyone or anything you want, given that you understand you're guaranteed no First Amendment protection from social or commercial repercussions.

Open your mouth, better know the rules. Better understand the consequences.

Not hard to understand.
Click to expand...
I'm on the way, fat ass.


Pray.
 
You've hit your Top-Psycho gear early this year, Ed

I've forwarded your latest threat to the CCSD and the FSP to add to their collection. I've requested that they contact McKeesport PD and PSP for your vehicle ID. Better hope you don't blow any more .16's while in Florida, Mastrovich. This state won't let you leave.




This post was edited on 3/11 9:39 AM by SkunkBear
 
Re: You've hit your Top-Psycho gear early this year, Ed

Originally posted by SkunkBear:
I've forwarded you latest threat to the CCSD and the FSP. I've requested that they contact McKeesport PD and PSP for your vehicle ID. Better hope you don't blow any more .16's while in Florida, Mastrovich. This state won't let you leave.
Click to expand...
See you soon, wife beater.
 
None of us can wait, Ed

We're all wondering if you're really as ugly as your pictures suggest.

Are you bringing your Uzi? Still wearing those lifts in your shoes?
 
Re: None of us can wait, Ed


Originally posted by SkunkBear:
We're all wondering if you're really as ugly as your pictures suggest.

Are you bringing your Uzi? Still wearing those lifts in your shoes?
Click to expand...
Not you, fat ass.

As you will learn.
 
Responding to voices in your head again?

"Not you" relates to nothing I posted. And why is it that everybody you've never seen or met is nonetheless always "fat?"

BTW, Det. Terry Corbin says to ask if you'll be bringing that plated Colt Automatic with you?
This post was edited on 3/11 6:13 PM by SkunkBear
 
Re: You've hit your Top-Psycho gear early this year, Ed


Originally posted by SkunkBear:
I've forwarded your latest threat to the CCSD and the FSP to add to their collection. I've requested that they contact McKeesport PD and PSP for your vehicle ID. Better hope you don't blow any more .16's while in Florida, Mastrovich. This state won't let you leave.




This post was edited on 3/11 9:39 AM by SkunkBear
Click to expand...
How's it going, wife beater?
 
Re: You've hit your Top-Psycho gear early this year, Ed

I'll let you know, should I ever decide to beat my wife.

OTOH, whatever you did to repulse Diane (we can guess, can't we, DUI trannygirl?), she not only bailed on your marriage, but dumped your last name IMMEDIATELY. Your son, Eliot, now wants nothing to do with you. Nor does FOS or BWI, as both boards demonstrated when they got rid of "pnnylion."

There are those mentally ill people who seem unable to quit when they're behind.

And then there's you.

Plop.
 
Re: You've hit your Top-Psycho gear early this year, Ed


Originally posted by SkunkBear:
I'll let you know, should I ever decide to beat my wife.

OTOH, whatever you did to repulse Diane (we can guess, can't we, DUI trannygirl?), she not only bailed on your marriage, but dumped your last name IMMEDIATELY. Your son, Eliot, now wants nothing to do with you. Nor does FOS or BWI, as both boards demonstrated when they got rid of "pnnylion."

There are those mentally ill people who seem unable to quit when they're behind.

And then there's you.

Plop.
Click to expand...
Just more drunken lies.
 
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