2015 Scholarships

[guestavo]

Let me preface this by saying that banking that 2013 scholarship has come back to bite UM for now. The lack of foresight to use that 2013 scholly on a big or guard, especially when several pro caliber players were in state (Vincent Hunter, EC Matthews, Monte Morris) and decent rotation guys (Dontel Highsmith,Wes Clark) were available was a mistake.



Then JB takes a 6 man class and maybe only Kam is productive this year?


Caris and Max will be gone and the staff will have 2 open scholarships. There is talks of banking both for a giant 2016 class but I think that is a mistake. Walton, Spike, Irvin and Kam are all potentially gone after 2015-216 and we'd be in an even worser position than what we have now. And that amazing 2016 class we thought was possible does not look likely.



It will come back to bite UM if we bank them. There are competent rotation players out there. Seth Green said JB told him Duncan Robinson is a 4/3.


JB should grab a PG and 2/3. Big time recruits won't be scared off and JB will have 2 competent guards with 1 year in the system. We can't risk MAAR and a bunch of freshmen in 2016.







This post was edited on 11/21 2:51 PM by guestavo

 

[MRock_2]

Have you been following the recruiting efforts for 2015's?

JB and crew have been recruiting for a two guard in the class. Kinnard chose Duke and Dozier stayed home for USC. There are others they are still recruiting and more players will emerge as seniors. Don't give up the ship (pun intended)!

 

[Reality Man]

Whoa....hold on. Gotta disagree with you on this issue. Are you saying

that Walton will gone after his junior year? No.

Are you saying that Chatman is gone after his sophomore year? No. The guy (who I like by the way) who is on the verge of getting benched for having a very raw offensive game. Don't see it at all.

Irvin...Yes.


So UM will have a pg on the roster with at least one backup (MAAR), Dawkins, Chatman, Donnal, Doyle, Wilson and Teske.

Now I do agree that this staff needs to start re-stocking with some new players but everything is okay. Just about developing some of this new talent and adding some new higher end talent.



Reality Man

 

[guestavo]

Yes, I think Kam and Walton have high chance of leaving after next year.

Kam is on the bench not because he isn't talented but because he doesn't understand team defense yet.

Walton will leave because he maxed out his talent at the college after his 3rd year and he will want $$$ either overseas or in the NBA.

 

[Reality Man]

I'll definitely bet you some internet dollars...

think about the logic behind your comments.


Walton is going to leave college to pursue overseas $$$. Well why not just go the following year like Morgan. An NBA team is going to want some diminutive guy who doesn't really have a mid-range game and is very small going against much bigger in the lane players and who at best is a streaky 3 pt shooter who needs open looks.

No. Are you saying he will come out so he can be a free agent? We are talking about Walton right?


Kam is struggling offensively....4 for 19 so far. I think he is talented and a very smart player but he needs a lot of work on the offensive end. The potential is there but he wasn't nearly as offensively inclined as Irvin was coming out of high school.

Its possible but not likely. He doesn't have the wow factor athletically and needs to refine his game in order for his strengths to come to the forefront like passing, etc.

The bigger issue for this program after LeVert and Irvin is to get some high end talent to mix in with the rest of the guys.



Reality Man

 

[guestavo]

It worked for Ty Lawson and Darren Collison.

And Morgan is not the talent that Walton is and he was finishing a degree in engineering. You leave early because most pro careers last 5 years and a year is 100,000+ in the bank.

Walton is better than Irvin fyi

Offense is more than shooting. Kam looks way more athletic than Irvin. He can handle, pass, rebound, is disruptive defensively and at 6'7''-6'8'' with a frame that can get up to 225-230, all he needs is to learn team defense and tinker with that jump shot.

Does UM need high end talent in 2016? Yes. But, you still take 2 guys in 2015 in case that doesn't happen and still have 3 potential scholarships in 2016. Banking those 2 schollys and assuming Zak, Walton and Kam all come back, only to have all 3 leave, and then miss out on all the top 100 guys like in 2014 (except Kam) is bad planning.

 

[Mroad]

Unless Kam has a major jump in his development there is no way he is leaving after next year. I like his game and think he will be very good for us but his body is not close NBA ready and he has below average NBA athleticism. That's some very optimistic thinking if you think he will be ready for the NBA in 1.5 years. Although Walton is in a better position I wouldn't say he's a guarantee to go after next year either. He is a 5'11" guard that doesn't possess elite athleticism. He actually seems like a guy that might stay four years and than play professionally whereever he ends up.

I'm optimistic that JB will bring in at least one big time recruit in 2015. I'd love to see him bring in one big time perimeter player, along with one big time inside player.

 

[Reality Man]

Walton is better than Irvin? First, as a college player...

hard to compare different positions but o.k...I don't know about that but if you say so.

Walton is going to get all this money overseas and leave his family to go abroad. O.k...if you say so.

I think Walton is a good pass first pg but his very small but some holes in his game. I have a way of getting my point across to you.

Ready? This isn't personal.


Who was better...Morris or Walton? How is Morris doing in the NBA. It's tough to stay in the NBA. Morris had better size and other than Morris posting up smaller guards down low and pretty similar in their style. Do you think the NBA is going to come calling for some small pg?

Let's now go to Burke. Is Burke tearing up the NBA. He is small. Much better offensive game than Walton although Walton probably has a little more quickness and may be a better passer. Burke was player of the year in college.

Walton isn't considered among the top 20 pg's in college and this guy is going to take off after his junior year to go abroad? I don't see it.



Reality Man

 

[Reality Man]

Here you go Guestavo....just one list..


**

http://collegebasketballtalk.nbcsports.com/2014/10/27/2014-15-season-preview-marcus-paige-fred-van-vleet-among-the-best-lead-guards/

 

[guestavo]

Originally posted by Mroad:

Unless Kam has a major jump in his development there is no way he is leaving after next year. I like his game and think he will be very good for us but his body is not close NBA ready and he has below average NBA athleticism. That's some very optimistic thinking if you think he will be ready for the NBA in 1.5 years. Although Walton is in a better position I wouldn't say he's a guarantee to go after next year either. He is a 5'11" guard that doesn't possess elite athleticism. He actually seems like a guy that might stay four years and than play professionally whereever he ends up.

I'm optimistic that JB will bring in at least one big time recruit in 2015. I'd love to see him bring in one big time perimeter player, along with one big time inside player.

His body and athleticism is better than Stauskas'.

And Walton is 6'1'' and he is a good athlete.

Some of you are in extreme denial.

 

[guestavo]

Re: Here you go Guestavo....just one list..

Originally posted by Reality Man:

**

Useless list. Not only does the NBA weigh different things than college analyst but Walton will be on everyones list at the end of this season.

 

[guestavo]

Re: Walton is better than Irvin? First, as a college player...

Originally posted by Reality Man:


Who was better...Morris or Walton? How is Morris doing in the NBA. It's tough to stay in the NBA. Morris had better size and other than Morris posting up smaller guards down low and pretty similar in their style. Do you think the NBA is going to come calling for some small pg?

Let's now go to Burke. Is Burke tearing up the NBA. He is small. Much better offensive game than Walton although Walton probably has a little more quickness and may be a better passer. Burke was player of the year in college.

Morris can't shoot. Walton can.

Burke has no burst. Walton does.

College success is irrelevant.

 

[Reality Man]

So which is it...if you believe he is going to play at a higher level..

then they have their own evaluation or needs. If not..then he stays in college.

Question: If Walton has a 'burst'..then how does that translate to a pg in a half court situation if he has no mid range game or will get his shot blocked down in the lane?



Reality Man

 

[guestavo]

Re: So which is it...if you believe he is going to play at a higher level..

Originally posted by Reality Man:
then they have their own evaluation or needs. If not..then he stays in college.

Question: If Walton has a 'burst'..then how does that translate to a pg in a half court situation if he has no mid range game or will get his shot blocked down in the lane?



Reality Man

Walton has shown the ability to hit the mid range shot this year.

He is also a pretty good finisher and expect him to develop a floater.

I expect him to be a change of pace guard off the bench in the NBA so he doesn't need to be Derrick Rose

 

[Mroad]

Guestavo, you are trying to compare Stauskas to Chatman for going early? First, Stauskas is an elite shooter, probably the best outside shooter in the entire country last year, a complete sniper. Secondly, although Stauskas is certainly not an elite athlete I would say his athleticism is better than Chatman from what I've seen....Stauskas was pretty darn good at taking the ball to the basket last year. Now, maybe Chatman will make some incredible jump into next season but I find big jumps like this to be rare. I would be very surprised if Kam leaves for the NBA after his sophomore season. His game and his body need development before he is ready for the next level.

 

[guestavo]

Originally posted by Mroad:


Guestavo, you are trying to compare Stauskas to Chatman for going early? First, Stauskas is an elite shooter, probably the best outside shooter in the entire country last year, a complete sniper. Secondly, although Stauskas is certainly not an elite athlete I would say his athleticism is better than Chatman from what I've seen....Stauskas was pretty darn good at taking the ball to the basket last year. Now, maybe Chatman will make some incredible jump into next season but I find big jumps like this to be rare. I would be very surprised if Kam leaves for the NBA after his sophomore season. His game and his body need development before he is ready for the next level.

Not sure how anyone could think Stauskas is better athlete than Kam from watching them move.

 

[guestavo]

Kam's per 40 stats: 6.5 ppg 5.8 rpg 2.6 apg 3.9 spg .6 bpg

Wait til he learns the system and tweaks that jumper.

 

[Mroad]

I guess we will just agree to disagree and see what happens in 1.5 years. I'm on record saying he will still be in the college ranks two years from now.

 

[Cullen333]

Guestavo got kicked off some other boards... He only intends to rile you up. Pay no attention.

 

[guestavo]

Originally posted by Cullen333:
Guestavo got kicked off some other boards... He only intends to rile you up. Pay no attention.

boards?

And I left on my own will. I'm sure you guys at that site still believe that TJ Leaf is going to UM and Duncan Robinson is a future NBA player

 

[guestavo]

And if Kam, Zak Irvin and Walton are all here in 2016 then great. You simply skip the 2016 class and start recruiting 2017. And you have MAAR and the 2 2015 guards as experienced vets.

 

[blockm2]

Originally posted by guestavo:
Not sure how anyone could think Stauskas is better athlete than Kam from watching them move.

Chatman's athleticism is his biggest weakness aside from perhaps his current iffy jumper. Didnt' Stauskas have a 35" vert at the combine? Chatman is a pedestrian athlete at this point, but that's OK because we don't need him to be a high flyer.

 

[guestavo]

If anyone has footage of freshmen Stauskas jumping in a passing lane for a steal, leading the break, crossing a defender up then finishing for the and 1, please link me.

 

[blockm2]

Originally posted by guestavo:
If anyone has footage of freshmen Stauskas jumping in a passing lane for a steal, leading the break, crossing a defender up then finishing for the and 1, please link me.

if anybody thinks that any of that is a measure of how fast somebody can run or how high they can jump, please provide a link for me.

Thanks in advance.


Look, it isn't even a debate about the athleticism between Chatman and Stauskas. It's not close. Chatman can barely even dunk. I mean he can, but for the most part he's a below the rim player. He certainly isn't pulling off this move right now.

 

[guestavo]

Originally posted by blockm2:

Originally posted by guestavo:
If anyone has footage of freshmen Stauskas jumping in a passing lane for a steal, leading the break, crossing a defender up then finishing for the and 1, please link me.

if anybody thinks that any of that is a measure of how fast somebody can run or how high they can jump, please provide a link for me.

Thanks in advance.


Look, it isn't even a debate about the athleticism between Chatman and Stauskas. It's not close. Chatman can barely even dunk. I mean he can, but for the most part he's a below the rim player. He certainly isn't pulling off this move right now.

Why do you keep referencing mx vertical?

Draftexpress basically said Stauskas was a very poor athlete in every metric https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IwWFgomoRy0


Kam moves better laterally, is faster end to end, has a bigger frame than can carry more muscle, you are right this isn't close.
This post was edited on 11/24 3:03 PM by guestavo

 

[blockm2]

Originally posted by guestavo:

http://youtu.be/Kx7tatgxTOE

Why do you keep referencing mx vertical?

Draftexpress basically said Stauskas was a very poor athlete in every metric https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IwWFgomoRy0


Kam moves better laterally, is faster end to end, has a bigger frame than can carry more muscle, you are right this isn't close.
This post was edited on 11/24 3:03 PM by guestavo

So you have no support for your conclusion. Thanks. And please don't reference a draftexpress video comparing Nik's athleticism to current NBA 2 guards. Kam doesn't move better laterally and isn't faster end to end and it isn't close.



I LOVE Kam's talent. I think he has the potential to be a star. But you are a fool if you don't think athleticism is probably the weakest part of his game. He's pushing 6'8" and he can barely dunk in traffic. He's a cerebral player. Despite the fact he's black and Nik is white, Nik is far more explosive athletically as measured by vertical jump and agility tests at the combine.

Unless you've got something objective to support your notion, please give it up.

 

[guestavo]

Originally posted by blockm2:

Originally posted by guestavo:

http://youtu.be/Kx7tatgxTOE

Why do you keep referencing mx vertical?

Draftexpress basically said Stauskas was a very poor athlete in every metric https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IwWFgomoRy0


Kam moves better laterally, is faster end to end, has a bigger frame than can carry more muscle, you are right this isn't close.
This post was edited on 11/24 3:03 PM by guestavo

So you have no support for your conclusion. Thanks. And please don't reference a draftexpress video comparing Nik's athleticism to current NBA 2 guards. Kam doesn't move better laterally and isn't faster end to end and it isn't close.



I LOVE Kam's talent. I think he has the potential to be a star. But you are a fool if you don't think athleticism is probably the weakest part of his game. He's pushing 6'8" and he can barely dunk in traffic. He's a cerebral player. Despite the fact he's black and Nik is white, Nik is far more explosive athletically as measured by vertical jump and agility tests at the combine.

Unless you've got something objective to support your notion, please give it up.

This is a hilarious post.

Nik rated average to below average in every metric at the combine but agility. Kam after 2 years in AA will be far and away a better athlete.

Unless you've got something objective to support your notion, please give it up.

 

[blockm2]

Originally posted by guestavo:
This is a hilarious post.

Nik rated average to below average in every metric at the combine but agility. Kam after 2 years in AA will be far and away a better athlete.

Unless you've got something objective to support your notion, please give it up.

Nik Stauskas
Max Vert - 35.5"
Lane Agility - 10.79 seconds
Shuttle Run - 2.92 seconds
3/4 court sprint - 3.27 seconds

Not only did Stauskas measure in as the third tallest shooting guard in
shoes at 6'6.5", he had the 5th best max vertical (35.5") and shuttle
time (2.92), and the second best lane agility time among shooting
guards


And in case you are wondering, those are better than anything Chatman has done so far on campus in testing.


Because I'm sure you've got all kinds of objective articles of Kam Chatman's 3/4 court sprint time and vertical and agility tests being better.

(drops the mic and walks off stage as the crowd goes wild)


So please stop responding unless you care to provide some objective link of Kam Chatman's athletic exploits that none of us are aware of.
This post was edited on 11/25 12:17 AM by blockm2

 

[guestavo]

Originally posted by blockm2:

Originally posted by guestavo:
This is a hilarious post.

Nik rated average to below average in every metric at the combine but agility. Kam after 2 years in AA will be far and away a better athlete.

Unless you've got something objective to support your notion, please give it up.

Nik Stauskas
Max Vert - 35.5"
Lane Agility - 10.79 seconds
Shuttle Run - 2.92 seconds
3/4 court sprint - 3.27 seconds

Not only did Stauskas measure in as the third tallest shooting guard in
shoes at 6'6.5", he had the 5th best max vertical (35.5") and shuttle
time (2.92), and the second best lane agility time among shooting
guards

http://www.draftexpress.com/nba-pre-draft-measurements/?year=2014&sort2=DESC&draft=0&pos=2&source=NBA%20Draft%20Combine&sort=12

Out of 10 or so SGs

So he was middle of the pack on vert and above average on agility like I said.

 

[blockm2]

Originally posted by guestavo:

Out of 10 or so SGs

So he was middle of the pack on vert and above average on agility like I said.

So no links to support you and now Nik is merely "middle of the pack" and "above average" when compared to the most athletic position in the NBA while Chatman is below average compared to NCAA power forwards.

Gotcha.

thanks for playing

 

[guestavo]

Originally posted by blockm2:

Originally posted by guestavo:

Out of 10 or so SGs

So he was middle of the pack on vert and above average on agility like I said.

So no links to support you and now Nik is merely "middle of the pack" and "above average" when compared to the most athletic position in the NBA while Chatman is below average compared to NCAA power forwards.

Gotcha.

thanks for playing

Click the link I posted, smart guy.

And "true shooting guard" isn't "the most athletic position in the NBA"

 

[masuofmfan]

Originally posted by guestavo:
Let me preface this by saying that banking that 2013 scholarship has come back to bite UM for now. The lack of foresight to use that 2013 scholly on a big or guard, especially when several pro caliber players were in state (Vincent Hunter, EC Matthews, Monte Morris) and decent rotation guys (Dontel Highsmith,Wes Clark) were available was a mistake.










This post was edited on 11/21 2:51 PM by guestavo

Not sure how often you watched those players in HS but I think you are wrong on them.

I really liked V Hunters game but he isn't a guard and there is a reason no big time schools recruited him.

EC Mathews is a good player but again there were a lot of questions about whether he would make the grade.

I love Monte's game but he is a pg not a 2 guard. thats why it was either Walton or him.

Wes Clark is a chucker in a pg body.

Highsmith was not good enough to be a high major player.

JB knows what he is doing.

 

[blockm2]

Originally posted by guestavo:
Click the link I posted, smart guy.

And "true shooting guard" isn't "the most athletic position in the NBA"

I did click it. Since it didn't support anything you said, I assumed you weren't proud of it. And yes, 2 guard is the most athletic group of players in the league on an annual basis. But thanks for playing.


Still waiting on those links to Kam Chatman's measured times and vert numbers to support your idea he is more athletic than Stauskas.

Waiting


Waiting


Waiting

 

[guestavo]

Originally posted by blockm2:

Originally posted by guestavo:
Click the link I posted, smart guy.

And "true shooting guard" isn't "the most athletic position in the NBA"

I did click it. Since it didn't support anything you said, I assumed you weren't proud of it. And yes, 2 guard is the most athletic group of players in the league on an annual basis. But thanks for playing.

Sure it did. Can't help a person who is dense. But hey if the "2 guard is the most athletic group of players in the league on an annual basis", may explain why Nik looks stuck in molasses when he sees action for Sactown.

You are so transparent. You tried to use Stauskas' metrics after prepping for the NBA, after 2 years at UM and compared it to the 10 or so "true shooting guards" in the draft to prove he is athletic and still failed

As for anyone claiming Kam has no shot at leaving after 2 years, here is Draft Expess' main scouts take: https://twitter.com/mike_schmitz/status/537129072489668608

All this besides the point, UM needs to fill the schollys because Kam, Walton, Irvin and Spike may be gone and MAAR will be the only backcourt member.







This post was edited on 11/25 2:57 PM by guestavo

 

[blockm2]

Originally posted by guestavo:
Sure it did. Can't help a person who is dense. But hey if the "2 guard is the most athletic group of players in the league on an annual basis", may explain why Nik looks stuck in molasses when he sees action for Sactown.

You are so transparent. You tried to use Stauskas' metrics after prepping for the NBA, after 2 years at UM and compared it to the 10 or so "true shooting guards" in the draft to prove he is athletic and still failed

As for anyone claiming Kam has no shot at leaving after 2 years, here is Draft Expess' main scouts take: https://twitter.com/mike_schmitz/status/537129072489668608

All this besides the point, UM needs to fill the schollys because Kam, Walton, Irvin and Spike may be gone and MAAR will be the only backcourt member.







This post was edited on 11/25 2:57 PM by guestavo

Are you just trying to look stupid now?

I love Kam Chatman's game. I haven't said boo about him leaving early or not. Stop confusing yourself and actually read. What I'm laughing at is YOUR assertion that Chatman is more athletic than Stauskas. You have provided zero proof. You have provided zero evidence of ANYBODY evening agreeing with you. The only facts shown are that Nik put up very nice vertical, agility, and speed numbers at the combine.

All you do is spin, spin, spin. Nik is on the bench in Sacramento? Wow. Him and nearly every other rookie in the league. Not relevant to Kam Chatman's vertical, but you seem to care.






Chatman is a really talented player. He's got long arms, great vision, and a good handle. Right now his jumper stinks but that can be fixed. What he isn't is an elite athlete. He's not even average right now. We've played quite a few games and he isn't even attempted a single dunk despite being in the lane quite a bit.

 

[guestavo]

Originally posted by blockm2:

Originally posted by guestavo:
Sure it did. Can't help a person who is dense. But hey if the "2 guard is the most athletic group of players in the league on an annual basis", may explain why Nik looks stuck in molasses when he sees action for Sactown.

You are so transparent. You tried to use Stauskas' metrics after prepping for the NBA, after 2 years at UM and compared it to the 10 or so "true shooting guards" in the draft to prove he is athletic and still failed

As for anyone claiming Kam has no shot at leaving after 2 years, here is Draft Expess' main scouts take: https://twitter.com/mike_schmitz/status/537129072489668608

All this besides the point, UM needs to fill the schollys because Kam, Walton, Irvin and Spike may be gone and MAAR will be the only backcourt member.







This post was edited on 11/25 2:57 PM by guestavo

Are you just trying to look stupid now?

I love Kam Chatman's game. I haven't said boo about him leaving early or not. Stop confusing yourself and actually read. What I'm laughing at is YOUR assertion that Chatman is more athletic than Stauskas. You have provided zero proof. You have provided zero evidence of ANYBODY evening agreeing with you. The only facts shown are that Nik put up very nice vertical, agility, and speed numbers at the combine.

My assertion is simply my opinion. We can compare metrics when Kam goes to the combine.

 

[Mroad]

And my assertion is that Kam will not be going to the NBA after his sophomore year. I also like his game and believe he has big upside but I think he is going to take 1-2 years to develop into a high end college player. I wouldn't be surprised if he goes after his junior year if he works hard at his game.

 

[guestavo]

Originally posted by Mroad:
And my assertion is that Kam will not be going to the NBA after his sophomore year. I also like his game and believe he has big upside but I think he is going to take 1-2 years to develop into a high end college player. I wouldn't be surprised if he goes after his junior year if he works hard at his game.

If he stays 3 years, cool, but I doubt and the 2 slots in 2015 should be filled as a precaution.

 

[Mroad]

Guestavo, I know you think he's gone after next year that's why we have a friendly internet bet on this one. I'm feeling good he will not be in the NBA two years from now....we will see.

 

[blockm2]

Originally posted by guestavo:

Not sure how anyone could think Stauskas is better athlete than Kam from watching them move. .
.
.
My assertion is simply my opinion. We can compare metrics when Kam goes to the combine.

It still blows my mind that anybody can watch every minute of Michigan last season and then so far this season and think Kam is even on the same planet as Nik in terms of athleticism.

That's simply my opinion as a fan having watched loads of college hoops since the mid 80s. Chatman is not bouncy at all. He plays below the rim. Considering his height and length, that's a strong indication he lacks explosiveness. What he has is great instincts and handle and vision. If he had elite athleticism to go with those things, he'd have been a top 5 recruit in his class and in the running for #1 pick in the draft this year. But he isn't an elite athlete.