Year 3: Where's Harbaughs O Line?
- Thread starter maelfan
- Start date
Still need to be able to run the ball more consistently. These no gain...1-2 yard gains are maddening!!
Agree, but not being able to run the ball is consistently is maddening. So many no gain...1-2 yard gains have dictated too many 3 & outs.
Agree, but not being able to run the ball is consistently is maddening. So many no gain...1-2 yard gains have dictated too many 3 & outs.
See, Harbaugh's first recruiting class.
He had about a month to finalize it. Before the wheels came flying off Hoke's final season as HC, the class was going to be very good. When that season went south, so did a lot of recruits.
That class should be supplying a bounty of upperclassmen who are strong contributors.
Hoke's OL recruiting, recruiting for offense in general, was weak, too.
This is exactly why Newsome's injury was and is a major blow. The kid was a stud and is sorely missed.
The line is 20-30 per cent better with Newsome on it, and that equates to a siginificant improvement.
Rehab is going as well as can be expected and other studs have been added but are only getting their feet wet.
Go Blue. Always.
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Hope so. As we know all it takes is ONE weak link in the O-line to cause chaos in the backfield.
Well, The Wait for a strong OL has been incredibly long. Not mysterious, but frustratingly long.
Go Blue. Always.
I clearly understand a rebuild, what he may or may not have been left, etc. But the fact that for 2 1/4 years we have barely been able to run the ball against the top half of the opponents on our schedules is troubling.
Aside from the fact that this was a major contributing factor to our 2015 loss vs. MSU, and the Iowa and OSU losses last year, at some point the coaching up expectation has to be in place. I find it hard to believe the raw talent at NW last year was better than ours, among other schools.
We may have been in the NC game last year with even above average OL play.
There may come a point where coaching of the OL has to go under the microscope.
I don't think it's at that point, may never get there.
Yessir, last season's senior OL whiffs and miscues were costly. No doubt.
I think Newsome's absence was huge last season, too.
Not worried, longer term.
Short term? I totally get it if folks are tired of waiting.
Go Blue. Always.
I will take above average OL play all day every day. Yes, at least we're in the playoffs with said OL play with a shot at NC game. Of course all that does it get my frustration level up again! Thanks for spiking the blood pressure M-fan.
The OL has just been inconsistent but it's not all bad.
Rushing totals:
215 yds / 4.4 YPC vs Florida
192 yds / 5.2 YPC vs Cincy
190 yds / 4.5.2 YPC vs AF
132 yds / 3.2 YPC vs Purdue
Considering how sluggish the passing game has looked under Speight + all the sacks he takes, the running game has done enough to keep us afloat. It has to get better for sure. In the meanwhile, O'Korn really covered for a lot of miscues on the OL (which includes the RB blocking on passing downs) vs Purdue which is why he should be the starter going forward. He avoided pressure multiple times instead of taking a sack. He got outside the pocket & threw accurately on the run. He ran the ball a few times for positive yards. He got the ball out of his hands quickly & accurately hitting receivers in stride so they could run after the catch. When the offense got off schedule to due penalties, etc O'Korn made a throw to either put the offense back on schedule or get the first down outright.
I really want to see how much better the OL looks (both running and passing game) if O'Korn continues to play and performs like he did vs Purdue.
Rushing totals:
215 yds / 4.4 YPC vs Florida
192 yds / 5.2 YPC vs Cincy
190 yds / 4.5.2 YPC vs AF
132 yds / 3.2 YPC vs Purdue
Considering how sluggish the passing game has looked under Speight + all the sacks he takes, the running game has done enough to keep us afloat. It has to get better for sure. In the meanwhile, O'Korn really covered for a lot of miscues on the OL (which includes the RB blocking on passing downs) vs Purdue which is why he should be the starter going forward. He avoided pressure multiple times instead of taking a sack. He got outside the pocket & threw accurately on the run. He ran the ball a few times for positive yards. He got the ball out of his hands quickly & accurately hitting receivers in stride so they could run after the catch. When the offense got off schedule to due penalties, etc O'Korn made a throw to either put the offense back on schedule or get the first down outright.
I really want to see how much better the OL looks (both running and passing game) if O'Korn continues to play and performs like he did vs Purdue.
Why do we keep getting this dumb ???
1. Newsome blows out leg.
2. Mason moves to LT from C
3. New right side of the line
1. Newsome blows out leg.
2. Mason moves to LT from C
3. New right side of the line
1) excuse
2) excuse
3) excuse
excuses are for losers and you're only making them because it's Harbaugh. If this was rich rod and his OL coach you'd be riding him out of town, curcumstances being the same.
OL under Harbaugh has barely budged on three years. No excuses.
QUOTE="DATRAIN24, post: 3569778, member: 10748"]Why do we keep getting this dumb ???
1. Newsome blows out leg.
2. Mason moves to LT from C
3. New right side of the line[/QUOTE]
2) excuse
3) excuse
excuses are for losers and you're only making them because it's Harbaugh. If this was rich rod and his OL coach you'd be riding him out of town, curcumstances being the same.
OL under Harbaugh has barely budged on three years. No excuses.
QUOTE="DATRAIN24, post: 3569778, member: 10748"]Why do we keep getting this dumb ???
1. Newsome blows out leg.
2. Mason moves to LT from C
3. New right side of the line[/QUOTE]
[/QUOTE]
No we wouldn’t, because if were Rich Rod the last two seasons would have been losing seasons ..not 10 win seasons
2017 was supposed to be a down year anyway so I don't put much weight into it. Next year though, my expectation is that Owenu, Ruiz, Bredeson, Filiaga, and potentially Runyan should be very good and very physical. Owenu is not a natural at the position so he is still learning but we have a bunch of folks playing positions they are not comfortable with because of lack of depth. Having said that, we have had below average recruiting on offense outside of WRs but the jury is still out. None of the WRs from last year and panning to much - Johnson is suspended, Crawford looks like he would be a 3rd of 4th option on most teams, McDoom is too small and the rest are still young. On TE, Wheatley has been nowhere to found and Bunting is struggling. McKeon is really the big surprise here as is Gentry, both diamonds in the rough really.
We are probably another 3 years away from having a very good offense (assuming JH stays). I don't see either Peters of McCaffery as the alpha QBs you really need to have and I don't see Evans or Walker as the featured backs you would need.
Defense is a whole different story - scary thing is that I think our defense might actually get better each of the next 2 seasons...think about the fact that we have Solomon, Anthony Jordan, Singleton, Vilian, Hudson and Jeter - all of those folks should have a very high upside and our corners are only going to keep getting better.
We are probably another 3 years away from having a very good offense (assuming JH stays). I don't see either Peters of McCaffery as the alpha QBs you really need to have and I don't see Evans or Walker as the featured backs you would need.
Defense is a whole different story - scary thing is that I think our defense might actually get better each of the next 2 seasons...think about the fact that we have Solomon, Anthony Jordan, Singleton, Vilian, Hudson and Jeter - all of those folks should have a very high upside and our corners are only going to keep getting better.
As soon as we have a halfway reliable OL and a difference maker at QB we're ready for the national stage..
Do you see either Peters or McCaffery as that difference maker QB? I don't - I am hoping Milton is that guy. We need a pure type A QB that just has moxy and can put the game on his shoulders, I don't see either of our QBs as fitting that mold. I am hoping JM is that guy next year but he will be a frosh so we might be another 2 years away from that.
I feel like on D we have all the components to continue to be great. On offense, we certainly have the WRs on paper but we need a great QB, a solid and servicable O-line and we are still missing a solid RB. We are pretty well set at FB and TE as well.
If we played the Clemson D or the Alabama D right now, I think we may end the game with 3 to 6 points on a couple of amazing kicks by Nordin. Our O-line can't get consistent push against teams yet and against a dominant D they would struggle.
What is mind-boggling to me is the fact that in practice they get to go up against the best defense in the country week in and week out but yet our O-line is not showing signs of improvement. Maybe our D just beats them down during the week and they lack confidence? Who knows but you have to think a solid D helps the offense continue to improve.
[/QUOTE]
Just as there are reasons the Defense is one of the best in the country, there are reasons the OL has had issues.
You invited input on the OL, and got some good reasons behind those issues, but kick them to the curb as excuses?
Go Blue. Always.
Just as there are reasons the Defense is one of the best in the country, there are reasons the OL has had issues.
You invited input on the OL, and got some good reasons behind those issues, but kick them to the curb as excuses?
Go Blue. Always.[/QUOTE]
I don't think those are invalid excuses but I do think the lack of cohesion and lack of a "next man up" reality on the OL is disturbing. The right side of the line has been exceptionally bad and the concerning part is that despite them being so bad, there is not enough depth behind them to come in and show improvement. If the right side of the line is the best product we can put on the field, then we should be concerned as fans unless we tag that up to pure youth. The one excuse I do think is very valid about the right side is that both Onwenu and Nolan are first time starters and Soph I believe. It's really rare to see first year starters be solid.
It's really hard to say w/o seeing them on the field but we need a QB with great accuracy and decent mobility.
There are no excuses. Harbaugh's 31st game is tomorrow and our OL still stinks. Hokes last couple years we near the bottom in TFL's.
We're near the bottom now.
If someone told you before Harbaughs first game in 2015 that we'd be 115th in TFL this deep into his third year you would have called him a moron who obviously didnt study Harbaughs history.
No excuses. As of today, it is a major failure of his tenure. Maybe tomorrow and beyond we'll look like UM in the earmy 90s. Hope so.
I don't think those are invalid excuses but I do think the lack of cohesion and lack of a "next man up" reality on the OL is disturbing. The right side of the line has been exceptionally bad and the concerning part is that despite them being so bad, there is not enough depth behind them to come in and show improvement. If the right side of the line is the best product we can put on the field, then we should be concerned as fans unless we tag that up to pure youth. The one excuse I do think is very valid about the right side is that both Onwenu and Nolan are first time starters and Soph I believe. It's really rare to see first year starters be solid.[/QUOTE]
We're near the bottom now.
If someone told you before Harbaughs first game in 2015 that we'd be 115th in TFL this deep into his third year you would have called him a moron who obviously didnt study Harbaughs history.
No excuses. As of today, it is a major failure of his tenure. Maybe tomorrow and beyond we'll look like UM in the earmy 90s. Hope so.
I don't think those are invalid excuses but I do think the lack of cohesion and lack of a "next man up" reality on the OL is disturbing. The right side of the line has been exceptionally bad and the concerning part is that despite them being so bad, there is not enough depth behind them to come in and show improvement. If the right side of the line is the best product we can put on the field, then we should be concerned as fans unless we tag that up to pure youth. The one excuse I do think is very valid about the right side is that both Onwenu and Nolan are first time starters and Soph I believe. It's really rare to see first year starters be solid.[/QUOTE]
Glad you all are not our coach and I hope those kids don’t ever read what you are writing about them this early in the process (while they are undefeated mind you ).
The OL hasn’t lost... that’s enough for today, who cares about the stats when the game is over other than the final score?
Try looking at some other stats if you must look at stats and blame a section of our team...how long does our QB hold the ball after snaps? Are we getting the ball out as fast as other teams? There are other drivers of some of those other stats
The OL hasn’t lost... that’s enough for today, who cares about the stats when the game is over other than the final score?
Try looking at some other stats if you must look at stats and blame a section of our team...how long does our QB hold the ball after snaps? Are we getting the ball out as fast as other teams? There are other drivers of some of those other stats
Maelfn, you are right - we should totally fire JH right now. Infact, I will start a petition. Your premise is completely flawed. If someone told you in 2015 that after 30 games we were 24-6 but statistically slight off, what would you say? I would take it. The biggest difference between JH and Hoke is that Hoke was never able to mask his team's deficiencies, while JH does not have that issue. Hoke had the same players and they kept getting worse each year, where you can't really say that about any of our players in the JH era. It took Bama a few years before they built this stout line and I think realistically, we are still 2 years away. Hoke's lines - the longer they played together, they worst they got.
Think about the fact that he has truly only had 2 recruiting class, we are 24-6 despite 3 new faces on the O-line, an entirely new WR core, and 3 different starting QBs in 3 years. Most teams would struggle through that. I don't care much for stats, if we rush for 0 yards tomorrow and win the game 2-0, I would be perfectly fine with a 5-0 record. Alternatively, if we scored like crazy and our D struggled and we won 63-62, I will take it as well. You put the best product on the field that can get you a win. JH has done more with developing talent versus most any other coach and very strong odds that JH could potentially get another 10 win season again this year, and you are complaining about our coach being a failure?
Think about the fact that he has truly only had 2 recruiting class, we are 24-6 despite 3 new faces on the O-line, an entirely new WR core, and 3 different starting QBs in 3 years. Most teams would struggle through that. I don't care much for stats, if we rush for 0 yards tomorrow and win the game 2-0, I would be perfectly fine with a 5-0 record. Alternatively, if we scored like crazy and our D struggled and we won 63-62, I will take it as well. You put the best product on the field that can get you a win. JH has done more with developing talent versus most any other coach and very strong odds that JH could potentially get another 10 win season again this year, and you are complaining about our coach being a failure?
Where did I say we should fire him?
I have suggested and suggested correctly that under near identical circumstances regarding OL play, Hoke was skewered, and deserved to be. But Harbaugh finishes 10-3, third place in the Big Ten East and nobody can say one bad word about him because he is our savior.
Under an identical circumstance of not having a backuup quarterback ready for big time big ten play when Denard got hurt at Nebraska, Hoke was skewered and deserved to be. But Harbaugh goes 10-3 and finishes 3rd place in the Big Ten East and nobody can say one word about him because he is our savior.
I would also take a 2-0 or 63-62 win. That is not the point. The point is the reality of the situation, two situations in particular that are inexcusable are being masked by the fact that JH has beaten everyone he was supposed to beat in 2 years, other than Iowa lost year. He has lost most of the tossups or games when it was apparent that we probably, but not certainly should have lost.
Why?? In part because in 30 games plus an entire winter, spring and fall prior to those 30 games, he and his coaches have failed to develop a high level offensive line.
So you and others can avoid that nasty truth all you want but it is true, it's inexcusable, and furthermore, I certainly hope O'Korn proves me and others wrong. He is certainly better than Nick Sheridan by 10,000 miles but he, nor any other QB for that matter has proven that Harbaugh has developed a backup QB.
So again. as a supposed QB guru and someone who everyone promised would fix our OL problems almost immediately, if not sooner than year 4 next year, both areas are undeniable failures right now.
https://www.sports-reference.com/cfb/coaches/nick-saban-1.html
Here you, the great Nick Saban and his records. Take a look at LSU and what he did his first 3 seasons: 8-4, 10-3, 8-5 before he won a NC in Year 4. He is regarded as the best college coach of all time and look at his track record. Even at Bama, it took him until Year 3 to finally turn around, except they don't really have educational standards at Bama so he could recruit whomever he wanted. Furthermore, in Year 5 they had 10 wins. That is not the case for Michigan. Any fan that expected that we would become a powerhouse in the first couple years is dilusional. We are similar to Stanford in that regard, it takes time to build the right pipeline and the right players. In year 4 Stanford became a powerhouse and I still think this year is a wash personally - anything >8 wins is a bonus because we have so much youth. Now next year, with all the talent and recruiting, if we screw the pooch, then yes, justified.
Like I said, Hoke's players regressed, not improved and ultimately that is what you judge a coach based on - are they improving on the field and are they competing. I honestly think fans like you would have been happier had we gone 15-11 in JH's first 2 years because he did not have his players, but he did not - he took what he was given the out-performed. Is there any other coach in the country you would rather have right now
Here you, the great Nick Saban and his records. Take a look at LSU and what he did his first 3 seasons: 8-4, 10-3, 8-5 before he won a NC in Year 4. He is regarded as the best college coach of all time and look at his track record. Even at Bama, it took him until Year 3 to finally turn around, except they don't really have educational standards at Bama so he could recruit whomever he wanted. Furthermore, in Year 5 they had 10 wins. That is not the case for Michigan. Any fan that expected that we would become a powerhouse in the first couple years is dilusional. We are similar to Stanford in that regard, it takes time to build the right pipeline and the right players. In year 4 Stanford became a powerhouse and I still think this year is a wash personally - anything >8 wins is a bonus because we have so much youth. Now next year, with all the talent and recruiting, if we screw the pooch, then yes, justified.
Like I said, Hoke's players regressed, not improved and ultimately that is what you judge a coach based on - are they improving on the field and are they competing. I honestly think fans like you would have been happier had we gone 15-11 in JH's first 2 years because he did not have his players, but he did not - he took what he was given the out-performed. Is there any other coach in the country you would rather have right now
Watch the game today...enjoy watching our “developing “ OL win....again. We all will be ready for you to complain and take shots at them and JH tomorrow when we are 5-0
Well I know this for sure.. no excuse for this performance in the 1st half. We can't hide form this. We're being out coached off a bye week.
This is quite embarrassing...we are clearly not just getting beat, at home following a bye week, by an un-ranked team...we are getting beat bad in almost all categories...obviously there is a chance we are not as good as we all thought and not prepared at all for this game.
I was probably wrong
And as predicted, the excuses and rationalization start rolling in. Hope it makes you and the others feel better but the facts are the facts.
Unreal. I'm not sure there are five Michigan fans in this state who can admit any one single fault or failure in his first 30.5 games.
I like Harbaugh. Wouldn't want another coach. Sitting in the 300 club level seats right now and watching the reality of what I and others have been saying. This is inexcusable. Period, exclamation point.
We may come back and win, we may not, but in game 31, what we're watching tonight, home, away or on the moon is inexcusable.
Admitting it like me or living in a fantasy world of excuses and rationalization like you and others is ip to each individual.
Win or lose tonight, enjoy your fantasy world of denying our frightening lack of progress.
Unreal. I'm not sure there are five Michigan fans in this state who can admit any one single fault or failure in his first 30.5 games.
I like Harbaugh. Wouldn't want another coach. Sitting in the 300 club level seats right now and watching the reality of what I and others have been saying. This is inexcusable. Period, exclamation point.
We may come back and win, we may not, but in game 31, what we're watching tonight, home, away or on the moon is inexcusable.
Admitting it like me or living in a fantasy world of excuses and rationalization like you and others is ip to each individual.
Win or lose tonight, enjoy your fantasy world of denying our frightening lack of progress.
How you enjoying that developing O Line???
QUOTE="ecrosswhite, post: 3582674, member: 79806"]Watch the game today...enjoy watching our “developing “ OL win....again. We all will be ready for you to complain and take shots at them and JH tomorrow when we are 5-0[/QUOTE]
QUOTE="ecrosswhite, post: 3582674, member: 79806"]Watch the game today...enjoy watching our “developing “ OL win....again. We all will be ready for you to complain and take shots at them and JH tomorrow when we are 5-0[/QUOTE]
Out coached is an injustice to the meaning of outcoached.
As things stand at game 30.5, Harbaugh is the fifth best coach in the big ten at best.
Loved the rationalization of Nick Saban at LSU. How bout
Saban at Bama
Dantonio at MSU
Meyer at OSU
Franklin at PSU
Stoops at OU
I guess those comparisons and 10 others I can list matter less than hat the greatest coach in college football did his first four years at LSU. LOL.
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Really? I think if you read, I said I was probably wrong, what are you trolling for? I still love my school and all our teams!
