Win or lose vs MSU... We gotta call our coaching staff out..

[BigHouseBallin]

We're losing at home to a unranked MSU off a bye week. Our offense lacks imagination. Our defense looks unprepared and is being outschemed on too many plays. Harbaugh is my guy 100% but this is totally unacceptable. Even if we shut Sparty down and win in the 2nd half you simply can't play like this at home after a bye week.

 

[tarun262]

Their offensive playing calling has been beautiful to watch, I wish we had a greater IQ to potentially do that.

 

[maelfan]

SHHHHHH!!!!! Can't do that. It's Harbaugh and it's only his 31st game.

Comical rationalization is safer and cheaper than hard drugs!!

We're losing at home to a unranked MSU off a bye week. Our offense lacks imagination. Our defense looks unprepared and is being outschemed on too many plays. Harbaugh is my guy 100% but this is totally unacceptable. Even if we shut Sparty down and win in the 2nd half you simply can't play like this at home after a bye week.

 

[tarun262]

24-7 since he has been hired, good enough for Top 5 in all of college football. So unless you think we can go hire one of those other 4 coaches, perhaps we should keep him around?

 

[ecrosswhite]

24-7 since he has been hired, good enough for Top 5 in all of college football. So unless you think we can go hire one of those other 4 coaches, perhaps we should keep him around?

I agree....but do we have to keep his whole crew? Is his son really doing a good job with the backs? Is the OC doing that well with the line? Is Pep improving the passing game vs last year ?

 

[maelfan]

I do want him to stay even if we were 18-13. There is no better fit for UM right now,

That doesn't change the how and the why of being 24-7 instead of better because of poor coaching decisions, very poor OL development, and losing every one possession game of the 31 except for at Minnesota and at IU, which shouldn't have been that close to begin with.

 

[ecrosswhite]

I do want him to stay even if we were 18-13. There is no better fit for UM right now,

That doesn't change the how and the why of being 24-7 instead of better because of poor coaching decisions, very poor OL development, and losing every one possession game of the 31 except for at Minnesota and at IU, which shouldn't have been that close to begin with.

I’m drinking the cool aid now...there needs to be some changes under JH

 

[BigHouseBallin]

24-7 since he has been hired, good enough for Top 5 in all of college football. So unless you think we can go hire one of those other 4 coaches, perhaps we should keep him around?

I said Harbaugh is my guy and no one is talking about replacing him. However, that doesn't mean he's beyond reproach. This offense is HORRENDOUS and outdated. I know the QB/OL combination isn't the best but the coaching staff is responsible for player development and the play calling the 1980s is limiting whatever potential success this offense can have.

They have to get the RBs into the passing game WAY more. They have to get the speed (McDoom, Perry) in the slot to stretch the defense. They have to run the ball from less obvious running formations. We can't always line up w/2/3 TEs and run the ball down people's throats. We have to use more WR screens/bubble screens to get ball in the hands of our WRs with a chance to make a play in space while also make the read much easier for the QB.

I loved the TE quick outs. They were working well but we went away from them. I saw the quick throw to Evans lined up as a WR but we saw it exactly one time.

 

[tarun262]

I agree....but do we have to keep his whole crew? Is his son really doing a good job with the backs? Is the OC doing that well with the line? Is Pep improving the passing game vs last year ?

Look that's fair but look around the league and coaches will always have loyalty. Look at MSU - they were 3-9 last year and Dantonio kept everyone around. Can you imagine if we go 4-8 this year - the entire board will call for everyone's head. Coaching continuity matters unless you think those coaches are not that great to begin with. I know you all may disagree, but I liked our offense last year - yeah we had a couple games where we did not perform that well but we had an injured QB in all of those games and most teams would struggle in that situation.

I think the bigger issue is more holistic in my mind. Do we want to be a smash mouth running team? If that is the case, we have the wrong players for it across the board. I think we are much more effective as a more balanced offense that has a bit more creativity on offense. The staple of the JH offense has always been his ability to create 10 options on the same formation and for some reason, we are lacking that a lot this year and players are not executing.

BTW - remember when this board all wanted Al Borges fired despite the fact that we had the highest scoring offense we had in almost 2 decades? And then we replaced him with the NC offensive coordinator of Alabama and then we ended up having the worst offense we have ever had at Michigan? It's easy for us as fans to sit here and judge the flavor of the day. The reality is play calling this year has been bad but not something that can't be fixed. Kids need to step up - they need to play as one. Maybe this was the swift kick in the ass this young team needed to stop being arrogant and play every single down.

 

[tarun262]

I said Harbaugh is my guy and no one is talking about replacing him. However, that doesn't mean he's beyond reproach. This offense is HORRENDOUS and outdated. I know the QB/OL combination isn't the best but the coaching staff is responsible for player development and the play calling the 1980s is limiting whatever potential success this offense can have.

They have to get the RBs into the passing game WAY more. They have to get the speed (McDoom, Perry) in the slot to stretch the defense. They have to run the ball from less obvious running formations. We can't always line up w/2/3 TEs and run the ball down people's throats. We have to use more WR screens/bubble screens to get ball in the hands of our WRs with a chance to make a play in space while also make the read much easier for the QB.

I loved the TE quick outs. They were working well but we went away from them. I saw the quick throw to Evans lined up as a WR but we saw it exactly one time.

Our kids are not executing at this time. Crawford and the QB have not been on the same page at all. DPJ is runing the wrong routes. McDoom is not a WR, I'm sorry - he should be returning punts. This offense has talent but for whatever reason they are not playing as a single unit at all. BTW, look at FSU - they have more 4/5 stars across the board on offense and they were studly last year on offense as well - they are 1-3 with probably the worst O-line in the nation. Shit happens and sometime you just end up with players that don't gel well together or you lack the leader on the team. I think that is what is really missing for us this year. We miss leaders like Butt, Smith, Darboh, Magnuson, etc on offense that would lead by example. We are missing that personality on offense right now across the board. Name me one player that you would call out as the person that can rally everyone? Generally it's the QB but that is just not what we have right now. I am hoping one of our younger players can develop into that soon.

 

[BigHouseBallin]

This kids are executing on defense and there's 10, count em, 10 new starters.. Either you're getting it done or you're not..No excuses....

Don Brown.. getting it done
Drevno, Hamilton, Harbaugh.. not getting it done..

 

[ecrosswhite]

This kids are executing on defense and there's 10, count em, 10 new starters.. Either you're getting it done or you're not..No excuses....

Don Brown.. getting it done
Drevno, Hamilton, Harbaugh.. not getting it done..

Make Don Brown the Head Coach and fire the rest! Meritocracy for everyone...if you can’t beat MSU and Ohio St you cannot be our Head Coach. Those are the rules

 

[jbannan]

We're losing at home to a unranked MSU off a bye week. Our offense lacks imagination. Our defense looks unprepared and is being outschemed on too many plays. Harbaugh is my guy 100% but this is totally unacceptable. Even if we shut Sparty down and win in the 2nd half you simply can't play like this at home after a bye week.

I might disagree with you. Michigan ran 40 different offensive sets in the first half. The problem might be that with a young team they are asked to do too much. They might have way too many options and doing too much thinking instead of playing. Maybe spent too much of the bye week adding too much to the offense.

 

[ecrosswhite]

We're losing at home to a unranked MSU off a bye week. Our offense lacks imagination. Our defense looks unprepared and is being outschemed on too many plays. Harbaugh is my guy 100% but this is totally unacceptable. Even if we shut Sparty down and win in the 2nd half you simply can't play like this at home after a bye week.

I might disagree with you. Michigan ran 40 different offensive sets in the first half. The problem might be that with a young team they are asked to do too much. They might have way too many options and doing too much thinking instead of playing. Maybe spent too much of the bye week adding too much to the offense.

Why did we have three series where we threw the ball all three downs in the first half? We were not down a lot, had plenary of time and were successful running Higdon . Why did Ty get to run the ball after the fumble? Chris Evans fumbled a few games back and didn’t play the rest of the game and was the third back the next game. Why did we run right inside so much? Do they not see what the rest of of world sees in the weakness of the right side? Why more there than left then? If we are so fast why not more stretch plays and misdirections? If you look at our stats that’s where our yardage was coming from but we kept giving up downs running into their strength behind our weakness???? OC has to be held accountable and JH doesn’t do it he should be held accountable

 

[maelfan]

Bad excuse for a 9 million dollar savior who all of you experts promised would have an OL and QB like Stanford within a year or two.

He is light years away from that.

Our kids are not executing at this time. Crawford and the QB have not been on the same page at all. DPJ is runing the wrong routes. McDoom is not a WR, I'm sorry - he should be returning punts. This offense has talent but for whatever reason they are not playing as a single unit at all. BTW, look at FSU - they have more 4/5 stars across the board on offense and they were studly last year on offense as well - they are 1-3 with probably the worst O-line in the nation. Shit happens and sometime you just end up with players that don't gel well together or you lack the leader on the team. I think that is what is really missing for us this year. We miss leaders like Butt, Smith, Darboh, Magnuson, etc on offense that would lead by example. We are missing that personality on offense right now across the board. Name me one player that you would call out as the person that can rally everyone? Generally it's the QB but that is just not what we have right now. I am hoping one of our younger players can develop into that soon.

 

[BigHouseBallin]

Make Don Brown the Head Coach and fire the rest! Meritocracy for everyone...if you can’t beat MSU and Ohio St you cannot be our Head Coach. Those are the rules

This is kind of the problem to me. Why can't we call a spade a spade? No one is calling for Harbaugh job but he's not above criticism. Don Brown/Greg Mattison and the entire defensive staff are out coaching everyone else on the coaching staff right now. 10 new starters and they're getting it done. On offense, we have 2 upperclassmen QBs that make horrific decisions after 2 years in the system. We have major OL problems although that's admittedly in part to injury.

The defensive/special team coaches are doing a fine job. The offensive coaches are not. Why is that taboo to say?

 

[BigHouseBallin]

I might disagree with you. Michigan ran 40 different offensive sets in the first half. The problem might be that with a young team they are asked to do too much. They might have way too many options and doing too much thinking instead of playing. Maybe spent too much of the bye week adding too much to the offense.

Possibly... but I am talking about running so much from obvious running formations. We're not Bama. We're not lining up 2/3TE and blowing teams of the LOS with this OL. Maybe in a year or 2 but not right now. Why aren't we using the RBs in the passing game. Lord knows they struggle to pick up the blitz. Not only would it supplement the running game but it would give the QBs more easy throws and give a chance for our backs to make plays in space. We should also utilize the quick passing game more (WR screens, quick throws directly to WRs when the DBs are off the line of scrimmage, etc).

There are some very basic things we could to to make the offense easier to manage for the QBs but still move the chains.. Also, it would be nice to sneak in a carry or two for Khalid Hill in situations other than obvious short yardage.

 

[tnakfoor]

24-7 since he has been hired, good enough for Top 5 in all of college football. So unless you think we can go hire one of those other 4 coaches, perhaps we should keep him around?

Didn't help Hoke when he was 24-7 in his first 31 games. He was also .500 against OSU and MSU.

 

[maelfan]

It's taboo because it's Harbaugh, the savior. People are so scared they'll be embarrassed if he leaves they feel a weird need for him to be protected.

Under identical circumstances of these 31 games and current state of team, if the coaches name was

Slim Barbaugh
Shady Toke
Or
Mitch Bababooieguez

these coaches would be bombarded with criticism.


QUOTE="BigHouseBallin, post: 3592176, member: 11362"]This is kind of the problem to me. Why can't we call a spade a spade? No one is calling for Harbaugh job but he's not above criticism. Don Brown/Greg Mattison and the entire defensive staff are out coaching everyone else on the coaching staff right now. 10 new starters and they're getting it done. On offense, we have 2 upperclassmen QBs that make horrific decisions after 2 years in the system. We have major OL problems although that's admittedly in part to injury.

The defensive/special team coaches are doing a fine job. The offensive coaches are not. Why is that taboo to say?[/QUOTE]

 

[Peppers05]

We should have punted on first down and figured out a way to get a shorter field for the O. In the snow bowl, teams punted on first down. We didn’t recognize how critical it was that we start a drive closer to the 50, or better with MSU punting in those conditions. Instead we threw interceptions and never flipped the field. Not once. That’s coaching. Chess not checkers. Our D would have easily held. And then one good run or pass and we get points. We all saw that our O wasn’t moving 70 yards and they had so many times to try. We needed to get smarter during the game.

 

[BigHouseBallin]

It's taboo because it's Harbaugh, the savior. People are so scared they'll be embarrassed if he leaves they feel a weird need for him to be protected.

Under identical circumstances of these 31 games and current state of team, if the coaches name was

Slim Barbaugh
Shady Toke
Or
Mitch Bababooieguez

these coaches would be bombarded with criticism.

LOL

Hey Harbaugh is a big boy. He coached in the NFL. This isn't his first rodeo in NCAAF. I doubt he's going to up and leave his alma mater because a few fans criticized him. He's criticizing himself, his staff and his team watching the game film. We just have to be able to call it like we see it.

Having said that, 10-3,10-3, 4-1.. even if we don't have a 10 win season this year we're clearly on the right path. We have to get the OL/QB issues resolved at some point before we can be legit contenders.

 

[DrCorona]

Didn't help Hoke when he was 24-7 in his first 31 games. He was also .500 against OSU and MSU.

This comparison may be true but ignorant. Can we also add the stat that after starting 24-7 Hoke went 7-13. Check back with me in 2 seasons & tell me if Harbaugh goes 35% winning percentage next 20 games.

 

[BigHouseBallin]

This comparison may be true but ignorant. Can we also add the stat that after starting 24-7 Hoke went 7-13. Check back with me in 2 seasons & tell me if Harbaugh goes 35% winning percentage next 20 games.

Agreed.. people are just being ridiculous... Hoke also was gifted Denard Robinson..

 

[ecrosswhite]

Clemson just lost, are they going to fire Dabbo now? It wasn’t even a rivalry game and they lost to an un-ranked team

 

[ecrosswhite]

Play calling in the 4th Quarter like some scared bitches is why we are ti s with a team we could have beat by more than 10pts. Now we are going into OT with one of the worse offenses in the NCAA. This is the coaching staffs fault
If they don’t have faith in O’korn to throw the ball and convert 3rd downs he is the wrong QB

 

[BigHouseBallin]

The bigger coaching mistake was not punting the ball out of bounds when IU got the huge punt return. That set them up at the 20 and they go in to score making it 20-17.

 

[BigHouseBallin]

Well, PSU came out looking liike a prepared team after a bye week. Us? Well not so much.. Either way, PSU ate Don Brown''s lunch. They had us schemed perfectly. Get our safeties and LBs in one-on-one coverage vs slot WRs and LBs.. McSorley and Barkley did the rest on the ground. Don Brown is allowed a mulligan though. He's the only reason we're going to a bowl game this year. However, he's gotta adjust and play some cover 2/zone over the top when you have a QB/WR combo doing that type of damage with the deep ball. Offense looked marginally better but the play calling still lacks imagination. We're underutilizing our RBs in the passing game and we have to throw far more short, quick routes to help O'Korn out.

 

[BigHouseBallin]

Ok guys... MSU just beat us and PSU with a team just as young as ours. They lost over a dozen players in off the field issues as well. Yet.. there they sit at the top of the B1G East with a chance to play OSU for all the marbles.

We have to stop making excuses. Our staff didn't do a good enough job this year with presumably more talent than them.

Be that as may, PSU losing opens the door for us. We gotta make it count. We took care of Minny. Next week we need OSU to take care of MSU and we have to win out to have any shot. Maryland is more than beatable. Wisky all but has the west locked up and has far less to play for than us. We gotta shut their running game down and beat them to 24. Then it's a showdown in the B1G house. It's time for this coaching staff to get this team to the next level.

 

[SpartanJD]

Ok guys... MSU just beat us and PSU with a team just as young as ours. They lost over a dozen players in off the field issues as well. Yet.. there they sit at the top of the B1G East with a chance to play OSU for all the marbles.

We have to stop making excuses. Our staff didn't do a good enough job this year with presumably more talent than them.

Be that as may, PSU losing opens the door for us. We gotta make it count. We took care of Minny. Next week we need OSU to take care of MSU and we have to win out to have any shot. Maryland is more than beatable. Wisky all but has the west locked up and has far less to play for than us. We gotta shut their running game down and beat them to 24. Then it's a showdown in the B1G house. It's time for this coaching staff to get this team to the next level.

Solid post.

I must say, seeing true frosh like Cody White and Hunter Rison for MSU make plays all over the field vs good teams...and then see how UMs super frosh like DPJ and Thomas don't even make impacts on games...why is that?

Now, I think DPJ and Thomas will be studs, but I thought they would both be making more of an impact this year than they are.

 

[DrCorona]

Solid post.

I must say, seeing true frosh like Cody White and Hunter Rison for MSU make plays all over the field vs good teams...and then see how UMs super frosh like DPJ and Thomas don't even make impacts on games...why is that?

Now, I think DPJ and Thomas will be studs, but I thought they would both be making more of an impact this year than they are.

Frequently I hear about how great our (M) tight ends are & how effective Harbaugh utilizes them. That's all fine & dandy but I would prefer the TE's compliment the Wide Receivers. WR's offer more big play potential. Agreed JD, by now DPJ & Co. should be getting their asses open & have some plays designed for them & not just slip screens.

 

[maelfan]

A few things comparing UM and MSU.

Dantonio, his staff, and the players deserve major kudos for where they are at.

However the narrative is about two plays away from being reversed in our head to head game. MSU won. They deserved to win, but against the thirteenth ranked team, -5 in the TO stat, we were right there.

Also, the criticism UM is receiving for the pass game should be similar to criticism MSU should be getting for its abysmal run game, but nobody is brutally criticizing them for it. MSUs running backs have 61 carries for 184 yards in their last three games. And that includes a home game vs IU. We had 33 carries for 333 yards last game alone from our RBs.

Other incredibly one sided comparisons game by game could be made in favor of our running stats vs theirs, just like comparing their passing stats to ours.

It is pathetic that we can’t beat them, and next year will be even tougher than this year. But the narrative of how far ahead of us they are is a bit overplayed.

 

[danp]

Ok guys... MSU just beat us and PSU with a team just as young as ours. They lost over a dozen players in off the field issues as well. Yet.. there they sit at the top of the B1G East with a chance to play OSU for all the marbles.

We have to stop making excuses. Our staff didn't do a good enough job this year with presumably more talent than them.

Be that as may, PSU losing opens the door for us. We gotta make it count. We took care of Minny. Next week we need OSU to take care of MSU and we have to win out to have any shot. Maryland is more than beatable. Wisky all but has the west locked up and has far less to play for than us. We gotta shut their running game down and beat them to 24. Then it's a showdown in the B1G house. It's time for this coaching staff to get this team to the next level.

I think Michigan needs MSU and PSU to lose 2 of their last 3 or Michigan's out. (Looking at the remaining schedules, I think OSU, MSU and PSU all win the games they aren't playing each other) Obviously Michigan has to win all of their games

From the Big Ten's site;
If three or more teams are tied, steps 1 through 8 will be followed until a determination is made. If only two teams remain tied after any step (or sub-step), the winner of the game between the two tied teams shall be the representative. If three or more teams remain tied after any step, move to next step in tiebreaker with remaining tied teams.

1. The records of the three tied teams will be compared against each other.
2. The records of the three tied teams will be compared within their division.

So if MSU loses to OSU and wins out, they end up 6-2 with victories over PSU and Michigan
OSU ends up 6-2 with victories over PSU and MSU
PSU ends up 6-2 with a victory over Michigan
Michigan ends up 6-2 with a victory over OSU.

In that case, PSU and Michigan are eliminated due #1, and OSU owns the tie breaker over MSU.

If MSU loses a 3rd game, and Michigan beats OSU, I think OSU still might go because both of Michigan's and PSU losses are to teams in the division while OSU will only have one loss in the division. So if I'm reading this right, the only chance Michigan has is for MSU and PSU to end up with 3 losses. I don't know if I see PSU losing to any of Rutgers Nebraska or Maryland and MSU losing to OSU and one of Maryland and Rutgers.

 

[DrCorona]

I think Michigan needs MSU and PSU to lose 2 of their last 3 or Michigan's out. (Looking at the remaining schedules, I think OSU, MSU and PSU all win the games they aren't playing each other) Obviously Michigan has to win all of their games

From the Big Ten's site;
If three or more teams are tied, steps 1 through 8 will be followed until a determination is made. If only two teams remain tied after any step (or sub-step), the winner of the game between the two tied teams shall be the representative. If three or more teams remain tied after any step, move to next step in tiebreaker with remaining tied teams.

1. The records of the three tied teams will be compared against each other.
2. The records of the three tied teams will be compared within their division.

So if MSU loses to OSU and wins out, they end up 6-2 with victories over PSU and Michigan
OSU ends up 6-2 with victories over PSU and MSU
PSU ends up 6-2 with a victory over Michigan
Michigan ends up 6-2 with a victory over OSU.

In that case, PSU and Michigan are eliminated due #1, and OSU owns the tie breaker over MSU.

If MSU loses a 3rd game, and Michigan beats OSU, I think OSU still might go because both of Michigan's and PSU losses are to teams in the division while OSU will only have one loss in the division. So if I'm reading this right, the only chance Michigan has is for MSU and PSU to end up with 3 losses. I don't know if I see PSU losing to any of Rutgers Nebraska or Maryland and MSU losing to OSU and one of Maryland and Rutgers.

Michigan needs to run the table, hope for 1 PSU loss & 2 MSU losses. Plain & simple. A two way tie with O$U would then give us the title. Head to head counts first Dan! Any two way tie PSU/MSU or 3 way tie with the others knocks us out.

 

[danp]

Michigan needs to run the table, hope for 1 PSU loss & 2 MSU losses. Plain & simple. A two way tie with O$U would then give us the title. Head to head counts first Dan! Any two way tie PSU/MSU or 3 way tie with the others knocks us out.

That's basically what I said. My opinion, Michigan's done. For all in tents and porpoises, the east is decided this weekend in Columbus.

 

[DrCorona]

That's basically what I said. My opinion, Michigan's done. For all in tents and porpoises, the east is decided this weekend in Columbus.

You said PSU needed 2 losses. I know its a long shot big time! To win out & have Rutgers or Maryland take down MSU & Rutgers, Maryland or Nebraska take down PSU.....yeah....its a long long long long shot!

 

[danp]

You said PSU needed 2 losses. I know its a long shot big time! To win out & have Rutgers or Maryland take down MSU & Rutgers, Maryland or Nebraska take down PSU.....yeah....its a long long long long shot!

Fair enough. I meant PSU needs to have 3 losses as does MSU. I just don't see that happening. If MSU wins this weekend, I don't see a snowballs chance in hell we lose our last two. If OSU wins, another loss for MSU becomes more likely, but still small.