When is the right time to fire a coach? You have pressure at USC and

[Reality Man]

Texas plus LSU. You have a hot coach in Hermann.

When do you need to fire a coach? I have heard rumors that USC may get rid of Helton after only ONE year.

The reason I bring up this topic is going through seasons with bad coaches an honorable thing or just plain bad business? UM got rid of RR in 3 years and Hoke in year 4. If somebody like Harbaugh was available then why not upgrade if a high profile guy is available rather than play Russian roulette depending on the year?

The point I am making is if 'x' guy is your guy and your are a big program then do whatever it takes to hire him.

This would be a good question for michnittlion and the Franklin situation.


RM

 

[alfadriver]

IMHO, Texas would be a bunch of fools to pull the trigger now. It would put their program behind quite a bit, even with a good hire. But that isn't going to happen mid-season.

USC has done that a few times, and look at where they still are.

 

[anon_sg4bgyiuileo1]

PSU dumps Franklin now and they might as well hang it up, because any qualified coach would consider that program nuclear waste at that point.

 

[GoBlue_since1985]

I think usc problem is hiring people they like rather then hiring someone that can get the job done.

 

[wolverines74]

Ownership should just come out and ask him! If he responds like a deer in th head lights , show him the door! Caldwell and Brad always have that look that says , " now what? " "74

 

[michnittlion]

IMHO, Texas would be a bunch of fools to pull the trigger now. It would put their program behind quite a bit, even with a good hire. But that isn't going to happen mid-season.

USC has done that a few times, and look at where they still are.

USC in 2013 --- if you recall, Orgeron replaced Kiffin, and the team really rallied behind him. The players wanted him hired on as the full-time coach, but the admins went another direction.

In one respect, USC made the right decision: Orgeron is a great short-term guy. He's not a long-term guy (witness his debacle at Ole Miss).

On the other hand, it was a wrong decision: Pat Haden's decision deflated the players' overall attitude for 2014 and beyond.

Then there is USC 2015 --- Helton replaced Sarskisian, and the team did not really rally behind Helton. But the admins still kept Helton. I do think part of the reason for that was their 2013 experience.

Point being: if you do fire mid-season, you (1) are giving up on the season to an extent, and shouldn't necessarily expect the players to rally. But (2) if the players do rally, your interim coach better be a guy who you could credibly hire long-term.

I expect LSU to finish pretty strong under Orgeron. They're going to have the same dilemma here soon.

 

[alfadriver]

USC in 2013 --- if you recall, Orgeron replaced Kiffin, and the team really rallied behind him. The players wanted him hired on as the full-time coach, but the admins went another direction.

In one respect, USC made the right decision: Orgeron is a great short-term guy. He's not a long-term guy (witness his debacle at Ole Miss).

On the other hand, it was a wrong decision: Pat Haden's decision deflated the players' overall attitude for 2014 and beyond.

Then there is USC 2015 --- Helton replaced Sarskisian, and the team did not really rally behind Helton. But the admins still kept Helton. I do think part of the reason for that was their 2013 experience.

Point being: if you do fire mid-season, you (1) are giving up on the season to an extent, and shouldn't necessarily expect the players to rally. But (2) if the players do rally, your interim coach better be a guy who you could credibly hire long-term.

I expect LSU to finish pretty strong under Orgeron. They're going to have the same dilemma here soon.

I remember that they finished the season well.

But to what point? Hasn't make a bit of difference. The program is still a total mess.

I don't see LSU getting much better- could win a game or two. But given the collapse from such high expectations- they can't recover any of that. I don't see that happening for a few years, now.

 

[Reality Man]

IMHO, Texas would be a bunch of fools to pull the trigger now. It would put their program behind quite a bit, even with a good hire. But that isn't going to happen mid-season.

USC has done that a few times, and look at where they still are.

Update: Texas fires Strong....after season but in effect it's actually immediate since everyone knows he is gone.

Is this a good strategy? Have a coach but out publicly shopping for a coach?

https://www.yahoo.com/sports/news/r...s-texas-coach-after-the-season-155551688.html

 

[Steve91562]

It's not illegal to breach a contract; just have to pay damages. As a practical matter, a school with this reputation would end up entering longer contracts, or more up front money.

 

[alfadriver]

I guess nobody has to worry about Texas as an opponent for another 5 or so years.


edit- a correction- I read the article, and it mentions Strong will be out AFTER the season is over. Big difference in bailing on him now.

We waited for Hoke to be finished instead of bailing early. But work was done during the odd time to secure Harbaugh. Theoretically, Texas can do the same.

But to find the odd situation that Michigan and Harbaugh found them all to be in for a repeat of that would be tough. Have a great coach fall out with the owner of the team at the same time your school had to fire the HC.... Timing worked out really well.

Could happen again, but who would Texas go after?

 

[Reality Man]

My question to you alfadriver.

If Harbaugh was available in year 2 or 3 of Hoke. Would you fire a coach to get the guy you really wanted? Pick any year. That is really the issue. If USC could get Hermann would you support getting rid of a coach in year 1?


RM

 

[alfadriver]

Dunno.

Again, what happened for us was a grand time of things happening at the same time.

Hoke could have pulled out that season. Harbaugh could have won the SB. Morris could have correctly been held out- which would have saved the AD's job, and probably not gotten Harbaugh.

Would one go out of their way to do that? Is this Hermann guy that good? Do you really bail early in the season- what does that tell a potential coach? Tells me that if the going got tough, people would bail. The booster situation in LSU really makes it tough to sell to a new HC unless he's getting over $10M a year, and it's guaranteed.

Crap, our society already has too much riding on the entertainment sport we call football. Otherwise, this (and the whole crap in PA) would not happen.

 

[Reality Man]

If a program thinks they can hit the 'jackpot' with a coach then put out the word to the coach and he responds affirmatively then you fire your current coach whenever.

I think it was Dotman who once said...if he isn't your guy then just let him go and get someone else. I am starting to think just keeping someone around for the sake of being polite when the coach will get his pay and your boosters will pony up the necessary money then it is what it is.

I think people could see RR was going to fail at UM somewhere pretty early. I was one of the guys who waited and then it became obvious to me that late/middle of Big Ten season (Wisconsin) that it was time to pull the plug.

In regards to Hoke...the Kansas State game really gave me doubts and pretty early in the 4th season it was clear Hoke needed to go. It all depends but Strong clearly isn't a good fit at Texas because Texas wants to be great and Strong isn't good enough to get Texas to be consistently great.

Not a lot of great coaches that are in the Meyer/Saban area code so if you want to be a great program you need to strike while the iron is hot or at least the perception that this coach will be a coaching star.



RM

 

[wolverines74]

I see Pro HC and staffs as being cut during the season like the Lions should do for example. In college I think it should be played out for the players. They came because of the college HC and his staff. Letting them go in mid stream is bad for the players. They're the ones playing for the universities making the cash from the fans that come and not the staffs. IMHO "74