Someone explain this to me...

[Reality Man]

College football is played in the United States. It's a big country with some major cities like N.Y. city, LA, San Francisco, Chicago, etc.

So let's take the following programs like UCLA, LSU, Iowa & Kentucy..


I am sure UCLA would love to get some northern cal pub...so why not go to San Fran.
I am sure LSU would love to recruit Tx...go to Dallas. Is this going to really hurt A&M?
I am sure Iowa would love to recruit Illinois (they do)...go to Chicago.
I am sure Kentucky would love to have even a bigger profile in Ohio. They recruit southern Ohio.


My point is the following. This is GOOD business for many schools not named the University of Michigan. There are plenty of schools who would get just as much value or more than UM. Maybe not Alabama or USC or OSU but most of these schools would love to have an opportunity to pull up a tent in certain locations.

Is UM the only school that wants to recruit outside it's home state. I doubt the Mississippi schools are happy with only the entire state of Miss. The havenots outnumber the haves substantially. The only states who would be overly protective would be Ohio, CA, Tx and Florida. Everyone else should be licking their chops.

Lastly, what are we talking about here...1 week? That's it? This is less offensive than climbing trees for goodness sakes. Do you think these states would have a problem if Ford moved it's factories down south?

Funny stuff.



RM

 

[klemman]

As I've said multiple times on other threads, I think getting exposure to players who wouldn't normally be able to make unofficial visits to your staff, players, and program is brilliant, and solves a problem for many northern based teams. I agree and think that the less named programs would benefit even more so than a program with a national brand like Michigan.

 

[ThatsMrSpartan2U]

As I stated on another thread, they discussed this on College Sports station on Sirius this morning. The issue isn't is it legal or not...it appears to be. It's that it will separate big $$$ programs from the also rans. The NCAA has to worry that northern schools in Power 5 conferences that can't afford to travel south for practice will be left even further behind in the recruiting wars. Purdue and Rutgers....now throw in Syracuse or Iowa State....they get left behind. Taking your whole team is expensive. The regional camps are something different.

I expect the NCAA to try to do something about this down the line.

 

[ArrowheadBlue]

To refute some of your reasoning Mr. Spartan but conference TV contracts worth multimillions for schools like Purdue and Rutgers certainly helps "balance" the financial powers.

 

[ThatsMrSpartan2U]

To refute some of your reasoning Mr. Spartan but conference TV contracts worth multimillions for schools like Purdue and Rutgers certainly helps "balance" the financial powers.

Are you suggesting that Purdue or Minnesota has the same financial resources in their athletic programs as Michigan? Michigan's resources are Texas and "Bama like. These other guys are waaaaaaay behind. I'm not saying you or anyone shouldn't leverage their advantages, but the NCAA's lower tier teams make up it's majority.

There are the Power 5 elites...that is, the top 10-20 programs across the country...then everybody else. JH is merely focusing everyone's attention on that fact. Don't know what will happen, but, as I relayed from Sirius discussion, the NCAA is probably going to have to address it.

 

[detroitjohn]

Are you suggesting that Purdue or Minnesota has the same financial resources in their athletic programs as Michigan? Michigan's resources are Texas and "Bama like. These other guys are waaaaaaay behind. I'm not saying you or anyone shouldn't leverage their advantages, but the NCAA's lower tier teams make up it's majority.

There are the Power 5 elites...that is, the top 10-20 programs across the country...then everybody else. JH is merely focusing everyone's attention on that fact. Don't know what will happen, but, as I relayed from Sirius discussion, the NCAA is probably going to have to address it.

Yes because any advantage is immoral you know.

 

[ThatsMrSpartan2U]

Yes because any advantage is immoral you know.

To be sure, there is athletic department revenue inequality. Bernie will look into it.

 

[detroitjohn]

To be sure, there is athletic department revenue inequality. Bernie will look into it.

Bernie or Santa Claus?

 

[Reality Man]

I have a name for Bernie....it's Bernie Sanderclaus.



Back to the point of how some programs don't have the same capacity to spend money. Well...if you are Illinois...go to Texas. If you Rutgers...go to PA. If you are Washington...go to San Fran. If you UNC...go to Miami.

Here is the key..what are we talking about...there is a limit of schollies. If UM goes to x,y,& z location...what are we talking about...2-3 recruits? What makes you think these recruits are going to pan out?

Come on...if UM wants to spend it's own money then so be it. Do it every other year. Do it in a year where there are going to be some high level guys in that area.

The SEC is trying to protect to their natural regional athletic advantage. If the SEC doesn't like it in football then go up for basketball practices in Chicago and New York.

This Harbaugh idea is American as you can get. It's a free country and you compete. I respect Dantonio for just coming out and saying...Dang...this is a good idea and which we had thought about it sooner.



RM

 

[michnittlion]

It comes down to this:

If Michigan got on the phone with Florida Atlantic (which is in beautiful and sunny Boca Raton, and is also about 70-degrees warmer than the current Arctic-conditions of Michigan) and Florida Atlantic said: sure, you can come down here and use our facilities for a few days for practice ----- nobody would care.

IMG is the issue. Michigan does not want to hold practice in Florida --- as much as they want to hold practice AT IMG. Make connections with those coaches, connections that will help with those valuable recruits.

There IS a compromise: you can practice off-campus but you can only do it at another 4-year University (provided that school gives you permission, of course). No high schools.

 

[Reality Man]

Fair enough although did the SEC complain when UM was down in the south with the summer camps? Where they at IMG?

I'll be honest with you michnittlion...the IMG variable is secondary to the primary issue which is UM is down recruiting in the south. Do you think UM could go down to Tuscaloosa or Gainesville or Baton Rouge? How about 20 minutes away? How about 40 minutes away?

How about Miami? New Orleans? How about phrasing it this way...you give me a city in the South that the SEC wouldn't object to UM holding spring practice at during spring break that is within 3 hours of Miami.

Do you think UM couldn't get the word out to IMG to come down an hour from their campus? You can spin it anyway you want...the SEC doesn't like a traditional and future football powerhouse in their backyard establishing relationships. IMG is just a side benefit.



RM

 

[michnittlion]

Fair enough although did the SEC complain when UM was down in the south with the summer camps? Where they at IMG?

I'll be honest with you michnittlion...the IMG variable is secondary to the primary issue which is UM is down recruiting in the south. Do you think UM could go down to Tuscaloosa or Gainesville or Baton Rouge? How about 20 minutes away? How about 40 minutes away?

How about Miami? New Orleans? How about phrasing it this way...you give me a city in the South that the SEC wouldn't object to UM holding spring practice at during spring break that is within 3 hours of Miami.

Do you think UM couldn't get the word out to IMG to come down an hour from their campus? You can spin it anyway you want...the SEC doesn't like a traditional and future football powerhouse in their backyard establishing relationships. IMG is just a side benefit.



RM

The SEC complained quite a bit about Summer Swarm in June-July 2015, if I remember correctly.

Now, Summer Swarm and the IMG practice ----- what do they have in common? They are both related to getting rather immediate access to recruits and/or those recruits' coaches.

I am 100% convinced that if Stephen Ross (owns 95% of the Miami Dolphins stadium) said, "hey, practice here for a week, you can practice and also have fun in the warmth on the nearby beaches", nobody would really care.

Yes, the word would get out, and the IMG coaches could make the 3-4 hour drive down from Bradenton. That's more of an effort though, someone actually has to get in a car to make that connection. If the primary goal is to make a connection, it's better to have the practice right AT IMG, right?

 

[Reality Man]

Are you saying that the only reason UM would want to be in Florida was for IMG only? If the SEC said to UM...go anywhere except IMG then UM wouldn't do it and the SEC would be okay with it?



RM

 

[michnittlion]

Are you saying that the only reason UM would want to be in Florida was for IMG only? If the SEC said to UM...go anywhere except IMG then UM wouldn't do it and the SEC would be okay with it?



RM

I don't think IMG --- and access to IMG coaches --- is the "only" reason to practice in Florida.

But I do think it's the primary reason.

If I were Sankey, an intriguing gambit would be to say "we don't think it's appropriate for U-M to practice at a high school, given that it gives them increased and direct access to IMG coaches. But if they want to practice in warm Florida, we have a member University in that state. It just so happens that in 2016 the University of Florida has the exact spring break week as the University of Michigan. So we hereby offer up, contingent on logistics and negotiations, their football facilities for U-M to use for their spring practices."

See the Michigan reaction on that.

 

[Reality Man]

I respect you (mentioned this before) but this won't hold water. Let's go over why this wouldn't go anywhere.

1. Can UM play other non conference games in certain locations for recruiting benefits? Yes.
2. Establishing relationships...like hiring Bush Sr? That is far more over the line when comparing that to having a practice at IMG.
3. Is having a practice at IMG a bigger problem than coaches watching AAU ball or having scouts watch games on campuses during either games or with practices?
4. IMG facility or a University where there will be a graduate transfer the next year?
5. How about having a practice at the Dolphins stadium where the national championship might be held after the season?


You are smart...you get it. At the end of the day recruits are going to be able to show up at any 'open' practice.


Let me ask you one last thing...why is being at IMG a bigger thing than just down the road at another facility other than accomodations? You keep trying to make the case that it's access to these recruits but these recruits/players would be able to see UM on some sort of trip down the road. You keep trying to make the point that UM won't get access to these players/coaches if they aren't at IMG. That doesn't make sense.

An analogy would be like if I live in San Diego but UM wants to practice in Pasadena that it will prevent me from seeing them in person. Like a trip for something that interests me deter me from making a trip for a couple of hours. Is that the point you are making? Your splitting hairs with this location or that location. It doesn't matter and I can assure you if the IMG access is not granted...UM will plant up the flag just down the road and will make the SAME guys the SEC is trying to shield from UM want to see UM even more.



RM

 

[ChicagoBlueFan]

I don't think IMG --- and access to IMG coaches --- is the "only" reason to practice in Florida.

But I do think it's the primary reason.

If I were Sankey, an intriguing gambit would be to say "we don't think it's appropriate for U-M to practice at a high school, given that it gives them increased and direct access to IMG coaches. But if they want to practice in warm Florida, we have a member University in that state. It just so happens that in 2016 the University of Florida has the exact spring break week as the University of Michigan. So we hereby offer up, contingent on logistics and negotiations, their football facilities for U-M to use for their spring practices."

See the Michigan reaction on that.

I think their response would be "thanks, but no thanks". They'll run their own program and the SEC schools can run their programs. Maybe Sankey should sign off on who we're allowed to offer, too?

 

[michnittlion]

I respect you (mentioned this before) but this won't hold water. Let's go over why this wouldn't go anywhere.

1. Can UM play other non conference games in certain locations for recruiting benefits? Yes.
2. Establishing relationships...like hiring Bush Sr? That is far more over the line when comparing that to having a practice at IMG.
3. Is having a practice at IMG a bigger problem than coaches watching AAU ball or having scouts watch games on campuses during either games or with practices?
4. IMG facility or a University where there will be a graduate transfer the next year?
5. How about having a practice at the Dolphins stadium where the national championship might be held after the season?


You are smart...you get it. At the end of the day recruits are going to be able to show up at any 'open' practice.


Let me ask you one last thing...why is being at IMG a bigger thing than just down the road at another facility other than accomodations? You keep trying to make the case that it's access to these recruits but these recruits/players would be able to see UM on some sort of trip down the road. You keep trying to make the point that UM won't get access to these players/coaches if they aren't at IMG. That doesn't make sense.

An analogy would be like if I live in San Diego but UM wants to practice in Pasadena that it will prevent me from seeing them in person. Like a trip for something that interests me deter me from making a trip for a couple of hours. Is that the point you are making? Your splitting hairs with this location or that location. It doesn't matter and I can assure you if the IMG access is not granted...UM will plant up the flag just down the road and will make the SAME guys the SEC is trying to shield from UM want to see UM even more.



RM

Maybe I'm wrong here, and forgive my long post below, but it HAS to be IMG. Because I think Harbaugh views IMG Academy the same way I do: it will be a true paradigm shifter in terms of how the High School football recruiting world works.

It's a private athletic training institute that (a) is run by a global talent marketing agency, while also (b) also having a secondary school (K through 12) attached to it. The institute came first (started in the late 1970s, focusing only on tennis but expanding to other sports later), the school came later (1999).

It took a while until IMG Academy started getting into football --- the first football training camp was in June 2010, the first football team was fielded in 2013. But after only 3 (!!!!!!) seasons: their football team is in the Top 10 in America, and they have 11 (!!!!!) of the top 300 recruits for the February 2017 signing period. The #1 recruit for February 2017 is among those 11: he just announced he's transferring to IMG Academy from a Baton Rouge, LA public school.

That's what we have. An extremely young football program, with an extremely large talent base. And it's truly like the 1840s California Gold Rush: WIDE OPEN. Nobody already "owns" relationships with the coaches, nobody has already "established" a pipeline to the school, nobody has already "cultivated" the political landscape to their favor.

Jim Harbaugh, of course, was a "49er" himself at one point. Setting up shop at IMG Academy is the California Gold Rush of 2010s college football. The spring practice HAS to be there, because the potential dividends are highest for those who establish their roots and "gold mines" first.

IMG Academy will ultimately do to college football recruiting what Oak Hills Academy and the like did to the basketball world.

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/09/19/sports/football/high-school-football-inc.html?_r=0

 

[michnittlion]

I think their response would be "thanks, but no thanks". They'll run their own program and the SEC schools can run their programs. Maybe Sankey should sign off on who we're allowed to offer, too?

Yeah, no doubt that would be the U-M response. But it would at least get the conversation closer to the key root question. Is this about practicing in Florida, or practicing at IMG? The answer, IMO, is unquestionably the latter.

 

[Reality Man]

I think their response would be "thanks, but no thanks". They'll run their own program and the SEC schools can run their programs. Maybe Sankey should sign off on who we're allowed to offer, too?

Exactly. That's how it comes across....like not only are we the best conference but you have no business coming down South.

Like...Is Alabama going to give back Mark Ingram?



RM

 

[Reality Man]

Maybe I'm wrong here, and forgive my long post below, but it HAS to be IMG. Because I think Harbaugh views IMG Academy the same way I do: it will be a true paradigm shifter in terms of how the High School football recruiting world works.

It's a private athletic training institute that (a) is run by a global talent marketing agency, while also (b) also having a secondary school (K through 12) attached to it. The institute came first (started in the late 1970s, focusing only on tennis but expanding to other sports later), the school came later (1999).

It took a while until IMG Academy started getting into football --- the first football training camp was in June 2010, the first football team was fielded in 2013. But after only 3 (!!!!!!) seasons: their football team is in the Top 10 in America, and they have 11 (!!!!!) of the top 300 recruits for the February 2017 signing period. The #1 recruit for February 2017 is among those 11: he just announced he's transferring to IMG Academy from a Baton Rouge, LA public school.

That's what we have. An extremely young football program, with an extremely large talent base. And it's truly like the 1840s California Gold Rush: WIDE OPEN. Nobody already "owns" relationships with the coaches, nobody has already "established" a pipeline to the school, nobody has already "cultivated" the political landscape to their favor.

Jim Harbaugh, of course, was a "49er" himself at one point. Setting up shop at IMG Academy is the California Gold Rush of 2010s college football. The spring practice HAS to be there, because the potential dividends are highest for those who establish their roots and "gold mines" first.

IMG Academy will ultimately do to college football recruiting what Oak Hills Academy and the like did to the basketball world.

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/09/19/sports/football/high-school-football-inc.html?_r=0

Of course Harbaugh wants access to IMG but what he really wants (primarily) is a foothold into Florida. The IMG thing is just icing on top.

Do you really think Harbaugh would just say...screw it...if I can't get into IMG then I am not going to bother when he can just invite these people over down the road of wherever. He wants to set up shop in Florida and of course he wants the IMG benefit too.

Here is an analogy. It's like saying...Oh, I really wanted the blonde but this brunette is cute and all but I had my heart set on the blonde so no thanks. Harbaugh will take 75% of what he wants rather than 0%.



RM

 

[ThatsMrSpartan2U]

Sheesh, guys. It's IMG. All about IMG and those 10-11 kids. You don't think those kids don't know who Rashan Gary is? It's easily a $100,000 week to cart the team down there and back. (a back of the envelope budget to send 100+ people to Florida for a week?...plane tiks, room, food, entertainment, trucks of equipment...what do ya think?) Probably more.

It's not about a "foothold" in Florida. You don't spend that kind of money for a chance. You spend it because you have a very specific goal. Very, very specific.

There's only one reason the AD lets JH spend that kinda change. It's those IMG croots. I bet UM pulls 3-4 of those kids to AA and maybe a coach of two as well.

 

[Westcoast24]

I don't think IMG --- and access to IMG coaches --- is the "only" reason to practice in Florida.

But I do think it's the primary reason.

If I were Sankey, an intriguing gambit would be to say "we don't think it's appropriate for U-M to practice at a high school, given that it gives them increased and direct access to IMG coaches. But if they want to practice in warm Florida, we have a member University in that state. It just so happens that in 2016 the University of Florida has the exact spring break week as the University of Michigan. So we hereby offer up, contingent on logistics and negotiations, their football facilities for U-M to use for their spring practices."

See the Michigan reaction on that.

I'm not sure what year it was but remember when Alabama held their bowl practices at a high school instead of a university in the same area. I believe the high school they used was the high school of a recruit they wanted. Alabama ended up giving that school money to redo a lot of their football facilities. How is that really any different than what they are complaining about. This entire thing is silly.

 

[Blue_note]

Sheesh, guys. It's IMG. All about IMG and those 10-11 kids. You don't think those kids don't know who Rashan Gary is? It's easily a $100,000 week to cart the team down there and back. (a back of the envelope budget to send 100+ people to Florida for a week?...plane tiks, room, food, entertainment, trucks of equipment...what do ya think?) Probably more.

It's not about a "foothold" in Florida. You don't spend that kind of money for a chance. You spend it because you have a very specific goal. Very, very specific.

There's only one reason the AD lets JH spend that kinda change. It's those IMG croots. I bet UM pulls 3-4 of those kids to AA and maybe a coach of two as well.

They could spend that money, and get exactly none of the "Croots" and it's still a great idea.

I personally don't care if Michigan does get any IMG recruits. The team loves the idea, the press generated is fabulous, it's more thinking outside the box from Harbaugh, and the SEC is crying and crying publicly.

Lots to like even if the IMGs all go elsewhere. Otherwise, why would Dantonio like it?

Go Blue. Always.

 

[Sweet C]

As I stated on another thread, they discussed this on College Sports station on Sirius this morning. The issue isn't is it legal or not...it appears to be. It's that it will separate big $$$ programs from the also rans. The NCAA has to worry that northern schools in Power 5 conferences that can't afford to travel south for practice will be left even further behind in the recruiting wars. Purdue and Rutgers....now throw in Syracuse or Iowa State....they get left behind. Taking your whole team is expensive. The regional camps are something different.

I expect the NCAA to try to do something about this down the line.

1. I like our coach's statement that a lot these kids could not afford a spring break and this is chance for some bonding. I also know there are two sides to this. This is to expose us in SEC country and still give the kids a time in warm weather and have a little fun. Now I also know that some schools can not afford this. But because Jim thought of it first and we can afford it does not make it bad. Go Blue!

 

[Reality Man]

You get it Sweet C. The principal idea of spending the money to go to Florida is....


1. Exposure to Florida and high level Florida recruits. Across the state. Exposure to coaches. Establish relationships. Recruit.
2. Press/publicity for areas even outside of Florida. National media attention.
3. Provoke the SEC.

UM may not get 1 IMG guy. If they do...great. If they don't...they are harvesting the state/area for future recruits. Establishing a presence. Just an investment in the early stages of the Harbaugh rebuilding process at UM. Great idea to ruffle some feathers. The SEC is being played by Harbaugh who really has no intention of doing this on a regular basis.

I could see Harbaugh doing this once every 4 years or so and probably will want to go to CA in a couple of years. SEC is playing along...Thank You.



RM