So Emnert, it's okay for players to be taken from their families during
- Thread starter maelfan
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The argument against that --- the Thanksgiving and Christmas holidays definitely fall within the basketball and football seasons. All the athletes who play those sports KNOW that going in. A baseball/lacrosse/softball student-athlete knows he/she is going to be spending the University's spring break playing games, because that's part of the baseball season.
Good point but not buying. I would bet my house that privately less than 10% of UMs football players have an issue with this, if that.
I think you're probably right on that 10% number. That said, I also think it's higher than 0%. If a player who already missed Thanksgiving and Christmas wants to hang with his family (or simply get drunk on the beach with his non-football Bros) as opposed to practice football over Spring Break, I can see where he's coming from.
I do think Harbaugh over-played his hand here. If he was just taking U-M to practice at some other place in Florida --- say U-M alum and Miami Dolphins owner Stephen Ross allowed U-M to practice at the Dolphins Stadium for a few days --- nobody would care.
But IMG, the home of something like 15 top recruits? That was what raised everybody's eye-brows. And now the opponents to Harbaugh's idea have found a "back door" way to outlaw off-campus practice all together. I'd bet (though I'm not going to bet my house
) that this legislation gets passed in the April NCAA session.
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Good points michnittlion although I heard OSU is working on a few day excursion to Jacksonville. We will see.
Now to your points.
If I told you that 95 out of 100 players wanted to go take a spring break practice for free and 5 were adamantly opposed to it...would you side with the majority. More importantly...why can't these 5 kids stay and not go on the trip. Retaliation? Let the 5 kids hypothetically do something else. Would you have a problem with that option.
We have already discussed this...Harbaugh could have gone anywhere in Florida and the SEC would be complaining. How about to the hometown of 3 top 250 FL players. Would that make you happier?
How about this for an example of integrity. Why doesn't the SEC eliminate those AAU summer circuit games? Does that benefit Kentucky? Hmmm. As others have stated...let's engage in a trade. UM doesn't go down to Florida during spring break and in return NCAA basketball eliminates the summer AAU circuit? We have a deal? Kids are still kids. Is a 17 year old really any different than a 19 year old when it comes the kids free time?
Seventeen
Eighteen
Nineteen
Notice anything in common with those above words. I'll give you a hint...look at last 4 letters.
RM
Now to your points.
If I told you that 95 out of 100 players wanted to go take a spring break practice for free and 5 were adamantly opposed to it...would you side with the majority. More importantly...why can't these 5 kids stay and not go on the trip. Retaliation? Let the 5 kids hypothetically do something else. Would you have a problem with that option.
We have already discussed this...Harbaugh could have gone anywhere in Florida and the SEC would be complaining. How about to the hometown of 3 top 250 FL players. Would that make you happier?
How about this for an example of integrity. Why doesn't the SEC eliminate those AAU summer circuit games? Does that benefit Kentucky? Hmmm. As others have stated...let's engage in a trade. UM doesn't go down to Florida during spring break and in return NCAA basketball eliminates the summer AAU circuit? We have a deal? Kids are still kids. Is a 17 year old really any different than a 19 year old when it comes the kids free time?
Seventeen
Eighteen
Nineteen
Notice anything in common with those above words. I'll give you a hint...look at last 4 letters.
RM
Those other sports also hold off season practices in the fall don't they. The argument is so weak IMO. if this spring practice was being held in Las Vegas or something the SEC and the ACC would not whisper a word. Emmett either for that matter.
Sure, they should be able to "opt out" of practices over spring break --- and "I am going to the beach for a week and doing nothing but drinking and having sex" should be a vaild excuse for opting out.
But, that's idealistic and completely realistic. Even if there was no retaliation, the "fear" of such: will always be there.
We have already discussed this...Harbaugh could have gone anywhere in Florida and the SEC would be complaining. How about to the hometown of 3 top 250 FL players. Would that make you happier?
Cat's out of the bag at this point, and we're re-treading old-ground, but I still 100% think this would have been a non-issue if the practice were anywhere on Planet Earth BUT IMG.
Different sports. The rule-book has all kinds of sport-specific rules. For instance, women's volleyball, another fall sport: they can have 4 actual competitive matches vs. other schools every spring.
Which is fine. The coaches of the other sports want a degree of autonomy as to their rules of course. Basketball and women's volleyball are what they are, and part of what they are is "not football." I think "horse trading" rules-changes between sports is a complete non-starter.
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It's not a weak argument. It's an argument about "autonomy" and each sport being allowed to make their OWN rules.
The NCAA manual has dozens of pages of sport-specific rules. If the NCAA's member institutions want to decide "football cannot practice over a school's spring break but Women's Volleyball and Soccer (other fall sports) can", such is their right.
You are right: if JH was having this practice in Las Vegas, the SEC/ACC wouldn't care. I conjecture they wouldn't care if it was elsewhere in Florida, say at the Miami Dolphins facility or at another school like D-2 West Florida or D-1AA Jacksonville.
Not a popular opinion: but Harbaugh misplayed his cards a bit here. The issue is IMG. He tried to gain an advantage (and he WILL have an advantage for 2016), but he pissed a few folk off in the meantime and opened the door for them to enact legislation that will take away that advantage in 2017 and beyond.
As for Emmert, he is at his core a politician. Like a typical politician, he only opened his mouth because he likely has the majority on his side. Not certain, but I think it's probable some sort of legislation gets passed this April. Note that Delany, another politician, is keeping HIS mouth shut too; draw your own conclusions from that.
Yep. No matter how hard michnittlion wants to sell this is about IMG or this being detrimental to the kids (which in theory it might be)....it's all about the SEC being upset because UM is in Florida.
I still find it amusing that michnittlion thinks (AND he believes this) that if UM was in Georgia or Louisiana or anywhere else in Florida that this wouldn't be a big deal. Is this very intelligent person actually believes this? Wow.
I could be mistaken but wasn't the SEC enraged when Harbaugh was doing his summer swarm with no relationship whatsoever with IMG but now michnittlion says the SEC is not concerned with anything other than IMG OR that kids have to spend time on their spring break. Yeah...right. Oh, the humanity. We are practicing the same amount of time but now we have to go down to Florida and have a good time whereas during this time all these kids had made previous arrangements to party in Toledo.
O.k. I am sure there are a few examples of that actually being the case. Weak argument michnittlion. Weak.
RM
Well, I guess we'll never know about "somewhere in Florida but not IMG." I'll just maintain that IMG is VERY unique and a potential paradigm shifter, a one-of-a-kind that comes around once a generation, in the world of college football recruiting.
Fighting vs. summer swarm/summer camps is ultimately a losing battle for the SEC. ALL the Northern schools can benefit from out-of-state summer camps (shoot, Michigan wasn't even the first with the idea, but once it started everyone quickly wanted in). It's a true "everybody who is a Northern school" can win type scenario.
Not so quite with the IMG situation. There's only one winner. One school that benefits. Fair enough, that winner is Michigan for March 2016. Don't you find it curious that Jim Delany is NOT speaking out on Michigan's behalf here? No doubt because there is significant dislike of the IMG camp from Michigan's own conference-mates! This isn't summer swarm where everyone can benefit to some degree. Only one school benefits. It's not just the SEC unwilling to concede Michigan an advantage in 2017 and beyond: it's fellow Northern schools as well.
BTW: who spends spring break in Toledo???? I was dead broke in college yet I still pulled the $$$ together to do Myrtle Beach and Las Vegas for spring breaks. These guys would too.
Didn't St. Nick Saban donate a ton of money to a certain high school in Florida a few years back to improve their weight room? Not a peep from anyone.
I read what the SEC and ACC commissioners and what Emmert said. The problem isn't IMG at all. It's the well fair of the student athlete that they are worried about. What great guys they are.
I couldn't even type that without laughing at the hypocrisy. What a joke
I think you're probably right on that 10% number. That said, I also think it's higher than 0%. If a player who already missed Thanksgiving and Christmas wants to hang with his family (or simply get drunk on the beach with his non-football Bros) as opposed to practice football over Spring Break, I can see where he's coming from.
I do think Harbaugh over-played his hand here. If he was just taking U-M to practice at some other place in Florida --- say U-M alum and Miami Dolphins owner Stephen Ross allowed U-M to practice at the Dolphins Stadium for a few days --- nobody would care.
But IMG, the home of something like 15 top recruits? That was what raised everybody's eye-brows. And now the opponents to Harbaugh's idea have found a "back door" way to outlaw off-campus practice all together. I'd bet (though I'm not going to bet my house
Two things: Regarding the fact that somewhere over 0% maybe doesn't like this will not be argued by me, however football players at big schools don't know every single thing they are getting into. While one could argue this "surprise" is a bit extreme, it is also not abuse. There are a hell of a lot of worse things programs probably spring on their players. Second, you may have a point witht the IMG thing as UM would not be practicing there if not for the obvious circumstances. However, I think it would still be something even if it were the MIami Dolphins or some random high school in Georgia.
These schools in the south want a wall built, regardless of what Harbaugh's next plan may be.
Legislation on this would be unfortunate as it would be just another hypocritical stance. The NCAA doesn't give a rats ass about player time constraints.
He misplayed his hand? He takes the kids to IMG this year and is in the headlines every day. Going forward, no other team gets to do it. Sounds like a win to me.
That's fair ---- I guess "over-played" in terms of being able to have off-campus practices on an annual basis (I do think that was the goal).
But you're right, it's a win for U-M for 2016.
P
The argument being put forth suggests the SEC would have been upset regardless of IMG.
Not that I expect the real concerns to be voiced, the public will never hear those, because of course opponents won't go there.
((( They objected to the satellite camps did they not? )))
No hand was misplayed here. The SEC wants to keep Harbaugh (and other non-conference programs)
out of their backyard, period.
The totally weak, but far-reaching argument, "but what of the children and their free time!" Is designed to do just that.
Go Blue. Always.
The argument being put forth suggests the SEC would have been upset regardless of IMG.
Not that I expect the real concerns to be voiced, the public will never hear those, because of course opponents won't go there.
((( They objected to the satellite camps did they not? )))
No hand was misplayed here. The SEC wants to keep Harbaugh (and other non-conference programs)
out of their backyard, period.
The totally weak, but far-reaching argument, "but what of the children and their free time!" Is designed to do just that.
Go Blue. Always.
I think the real win is putting the SEC, very publicly, on the defensive.
The "free time" argument is silly, and everyone with a functioning brain knows it.
I strongly suspect, and think it's a fair assumption, that the SEC dreads "what next?"
The satellite camps, this year's Florida week...they fear the known and the unknown.
Harbaugh is in their heads. No question it's a win.
Go Blue. Always.
This is a valid point about Delaney. As you indicated...other Big Ten programs are probably complaining that UM will have a relationship with IMG plus some of the Big Ten schools are jealous of UM going down to Fla or the South...schools like Purdue, Iowa, Rutgers, etc.
So to your point...which is very good about Delaney...he has to play politics and keep the smaller members happy and to make them feel important. I don't think OSU necessarily cares about UM because they can benefit doing the same thing. This entire thing (from BT perspective) has more of a jealousy aspect to it plus a self interest variable whereas the SEC is concerned about protecting their turf.
Yes...to your point...it is very strange that Delaney is silent and I don't think it's because he wants to stay out it but that he is trying to stay out of the way of UM ($$$ maker for the Big Ten and a high profile member of the conference to bring even more cred to the Big Ten) and keep the little sisters of the poor happy in his conference.
RM
I think kicking Florida's ass in their backyard has something to do with it as well. 41-7 and what a total ass kicking against the SEC runner up.
The counter argument is that this does not bring the NCAA or their schools any money, so outlawing it is no big deal. However adding a 12th game (which forced the B1G to extend past Thanksgiving), countless meaningless bowl games, and a playoff that adds another game are all fine and dandy though! These all put $ in the pockets of the member institutions, so by golly these are all great ideas and are not adding too much time to the schedules of these poor players, but practicing during a week off in the spring? These POOR student athletes!
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