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Question for UM or Sparty fans. Re: Izzo Recruiting

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Reality Man

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Feb 9, 2002
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Why do you think MSU is now starting to get less touted recruits. Its not like MSU is struggling. JB and UM isn't necessarily taking any recruits away from MSU.

Bad luck? Percentages catching up? Style of play? MSU has got a couple of 1st rounders in 2014. I just don't understand why the sudden drop off. Izzo getting tired of recruiting?

Not saying MSU won't be good but the high level of guys just don't seem to be flocking to MSU but rather a tier 2 type of guy. Looks like MSU is putting together a JB type of roster.



Reality Man
 
I would consider Deyonta Davis a high level guy who based off Spring reports will end being a 5 star / McD A A type of recruit.
 
Davis became a high level guy, but he was not necessarily that guy when he committed. He definitely wasn't that guy when the offer was given. Now Izzo may have always belived him to be that guy and expected his stature to rise, but it was not the same as chasing after a known quantity (like Parker, Alexander, Jones, etc) and landing one.

Izzo put all of his eggs in one basket for a 2 year span and came out empty handed. He was burned by that and I think he made a decision to avoid doing that again. Sure, he had strong beliefs that he would land the vast majority of those players, but it didn't happen for one reason or another.

Izzo was never the guy that got nothing but 5 star players. What was typical was that he would get one, maybe two, and then compliment those playersd with a few 4 star recruits and maybe one or two 3 star recruits.

I think he is changing his philosophy on recruiting and I'd have to think JB's success in this arena has maybe opened his eyes some. I think Izzo is now focusing on the type of player and not necessarily his ranking. Sure, if he thinks he can get the #1 player in the class, he is going to go all out for him, but I doubt we will ever see him focused on nothing but the top players in the class. If he has a kid who he likes and who likes MSU, he is going to sign that kid rather slow play the kid because Johnny All America might sign and he needs to leave a spot open for him.
 
Too many shady characters and $$$. Rumor is some of the players Izzo (and Beilein) recruited ended up getting $100,000-250,000 to go where they went.
 
I think that this is accurate. Duke has been his nemesis to some extent with both Jones and Parker going there. KU picked off Alexander. I think that Izzo was a little slow to realize where things were headed in some cases, and I've heard that an assistant gave him an overly optimistic take on one 5 star recruit. Another issue has been that the state of Michigan has been down in terms of elite recruits. MSU's roster should be pretty attractive to some of these kids. I'll be surprised if he doesn't break through soon.
 
I'll flat out say it, Denny Crum gave thousands to land NJ recruits from


Camden!, PERIOD. Most of the money went to the then Head coach AND NOT THE kids. "74
 
I trust coach B.

Sending 3 * players to the money league speaks volumes.

I notice a lot of over hype burgers boys who dont get the NBA a call.
 
Good move by Izzo

Hard to compete for the national kids unless you have some connection. Which is sickening to me because to see tops kids go to the same schools should raise concerns. Not a level field of play for schools that do things the right way IMO which both msu and um do. Just like um he is getting solid players, just need to sprinkle in a couple of highly rated kids like Davis and they will stay near the top of the league.
 
Personally I think there is this misconception that Izzo use to get 5 star recruits every year. Between 2005 and 2009 he only got 1 5 star recruit, Delvon Roe, who never came close to being the player he could have been due to multiple serious injuries and retired early. Even when he has gotten 5 star guys they have been kids towards the back of the 5 star pack. Dawson, Payne, Marquise Gray, Harris, and Delvon Roe were all 5 stars according to Rivals but were all rated in the 20's. According to Rivals MSU hasn't gotten a top 19 rated player in his class or higher since 2003 in Shannon Brown. Clearly in 2013 and 2014 Izzo started going after more top 10 type talents and it backfired on him big time as he struck out on all of them. Has his recruiting been on a downward trend or was it just 2 down years? Seems to me he is off to a pretty good start in 2015 as Deyonta Davis will likely end up a 5 star and Ahrens isn't rated all that highly but he was offered in December of his sophomore year and his rating will go up when healthy. MSU also seems to be the favorite for 5 star Swanigan too.
 
Starting line up in 2012-13 and 2013-14 included three 5 stars and two 4 stars. The 2013 and 2014 classes consist of one 4 star and four 3 stars combined. Significant drop off. Izzo could very well have a great 2015 class. Davis is a good start. Swanigan would be a very big addition. That would make the last two classes short term blips, although not looking good for Brunson right now, and Izzo could use a PG. He has also added shooting with Harris and Forbes transferring in.
 
Yeah those 2 transfers really help them offset the 2013 and 2014 classes, especially if Forbes gets a hardship waiver in order to play immediately as it sounds like that is a possibility.
 
My question re Harris and Forbes...

Both are great shooters. Great shooters. However, they are virtually identical as players--same game, same size, incredibly similar stat lines. Neither is a plus finisher at the rim (both under 50% from 2), a plus passer (neither had 55 assists for the season, despite playing over 1,000 minutes each), or a plus defender--they're scorers, and straight two guards.

If Forbes is eligible this year, it makes some sense to have them both--they need Forbes' shooting/scoring to help replace what they've lost--though if he is, and plays well, you might have one unhappy Eron Harris when it comes time to play next year, and Forbes already has a year playing real games in the system. Unless Denzel Valentine has a great enough year in 2014-15 to turn pro, I can't even begin to imagine how all of them get time. I'm sure some MSU fan will tell me that Denzel can/will play PG, but as a Michigan fan, I wouldn't be unhappy about that at all from the standpoint of perimeter defensive liabilities and susceptibility to ball pressure on the offensive end.

Please let me be clear about something--I thought Harris had plenty of game to play at Michigan, and I would have said the same thing about Forbes, had he ever been on our radar. This is not a we didn't want those guys post--they can absolutely play. I honestly can say though that I would not have advocated taking both--they're too similar, and they're not versatile enough position wise to play alongside each other. I don't pretend to know anywhere near as much about basketball as Tom Izzo, but no one is infallible. Color me skeptical that everyone will live happily ever after on this one.
 
Re: My question re Harris and Forbes...

If anyone is going to be unhappy next season, I don't think it's going to be Harris or Forbes. Kyle Ahrens will probably be the odd man out due to his and inexperience. I don't even think a redshirt is out of the question as rare that is for an incoming 3/4 star guard.
 
Re: My question re Harris and Forbes...

I don't think that Ahrens is expecting to play a big role as a freshman, so he won't be disappointed or surprised. Harris is expecting a major role, maybe a starting position. If Forbes has overtaken him, my guess is that he will not be happy.

This post was edited on 6/15 12:36 PM by sane1
 
Izzo's class this year shows more promise than more highly touted teams of the past. Davis and McQuaid are big time. Ahrens is more of the usual Izzo type. Next year the class is off the charts for Izzo. If Jackson stays to play college ball vs. going to Europe the expectations are MSU. Izzo has learned from Duke and Ky what he needs to get further than the Final Four.
 
Reality Man said:
Why do you think MSU is now starting to get less touted recruits. Its not like MSU is struggling. JB and UM isn't necessarily taking any recruits away from MSU.

Bad luck? Percentages catching up? Style of play? MSU has got a couple of 1st rounders in 2014. I just don't understand why the sudden drop off. Izzo getting tired of recruiting?

Not saying MSU won't be good but the high level of guys just don't seem to be flocking to MSU but rather a tier 2 type of guy. Looks like MSU is putting together a JB type of roster.



Reality Man
Click to expand...
I don't understand this post? The 2015 & 2016 classes are very strong. The late lose of Caleb Swanigan hurt but it happens. Davis was a 5* until the end when he finished the highest 4* in the nation at 26 overall. The 2013/2014 classes Izzo mist on a lot of top guys.




 
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