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Penn State fans like Harbaugh's idea of spring break at IMG (link)

My own thoughts are embedded in that thread already :) ------ but I will say, IMG Academy threatens to really upset the landscape in terms of where elite high-school football talent gathers and plays.

A legitimate possible paradigm changer.

It will be interesting to see where things go here over the next 10 years. I'm less than sold that IMG Academy's presence is a good thing for college football as a whole.
 
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My own thoughts are embedded in that thread already :) ------ but I will say, IMG Academy threatens to really upset the landscape in terms of where elite high-school football talent gathers and plays.

A legitimate possible paradigm changer.

It will be interesting to see where things go here over the next 10 years. I'm less than sold that IMG Academy's presence is a good thing for college football as a whole.

Were you serious when you suggested at BWI that Michigan will get swept this coming season by MSU and OSU?

I think Michigan will pound MSU this fall, and the OSU game will be a battle royal.

Go Blue. Always.
 
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Were you serious when you suggested at BWI that Michigan will get swept this coming season by MSU and OSU?

I think Michigan will pound MSU this fall, and the OSU game will be a battle royal.

Go Blue. Always.

That's a bit of a misrepresentation. I said "pick U-M to win the B1G East at your peril."

As you know, I give U-M a fair shake.

But, U-M football also has to "show me."

Remember Michigan @ PSU in 2008? Michigan had just lost to Toledo, PSU was in the Top 5. I bet U-M and took the 24 points in that game, absolutely. And if you remember that game: PSU DID trail at the half, despite being considerably better. They were nervous, 0-9 loomed above their heads. PSU did rally big-time and cover in that game, but it was incredibly dicey for awhile.

Anyway, point being ---- until U-M gets it done on the field and beats one of them, no I'm not picking them. U-M doesn't deserve the benefit of the doubt just yet. Besides, it's not like MSU or OSU aren't very very good themselves. One thing for sure: they won't be scared of U-M.

But I guess --- if God himself said I had to bet my eternal soul on it, I would bet on U-M going 0-2 in 2016.
 
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Fair enough, the "show me" part, I mean.

But with all Michigan has returning and all MSU is losing - they built 2015 to be their year - I don't expect Michigan to win a close one, but something in the order of 28-10.

That "this is our year" MSU squad was basically beat by 2015 Michigan, as well.

The 2016 season marks the first time in several years Michigan will sport the better lineup, clearly, on both sides of the ball, hence the expectation to win.

Go Blue. Always.
 
Fair enough, the "show me" part, I mean.

But with all Michigan has returning and all MSU is losing - they built 2015 to be their year - I don't expect Michigan to win a close one, but something in the order of 28-10.

That "this is our year" MSU squad was basically beat by 2015 Michigan, as well.

The 2016 season marks the first time in several years Michigan will sport the better lineup, clearly, on both sides of the ball, hence the expectation to win.

Go Blue. Always.

We'll see. My least favorite time of the year. Opening Thursday is "only" 210 days away. So we get 210 days of predictions and zero empirical results!

It's kind of sad that the time in-between Signing Day and Opening Thursday is more than 2x as large as the time in-between Opening Thursday and Championship Saturday! That needs to be fixed somehow!
 
Hey Michnittlion,


I respect your opinion but this opinion sounds eerily similar to the prediction of nddecker1. Remember him? He came on the board with the glass is half empty. Don't get me wrong...he had many good points but I told him that he was underestimating the coaching and some additions (Jake). I told him that I expected at least 8 wins and 9 was a definite possibility. Anything less than 8 wins would be a failure based on the roster.

Now to your perspective. It's reasonable but has a slight aura of denial and bias. Not saying that UM doesn't have something to prove (on the road) against good teams and UM has a question mark at qb. Let's be honest in the O'Korn (whomever) has something to prove and again on the road against quality teams that know how to win even with key losses (MSU).

That being said (my criticism of your viewpoint) is that you must be underestimating Harbaugh and staff. I believe OSU and MSU were both the better teams even though UM coulda/shoulda beat MSU. You are making the same mistake that nddecker1 made. Underestimating Harbaugh and his coaching.

He is a proven coach. He is going to develop this team and won 10 games this last year. This team returns some quality players (Butt, Lewis, Darboh, Chesson) and adds in others. Any decent qb play and some infusion of rb talent and this team is a top 10 team. Agree? I think you would. Why would a top 10 team not be able to beat a MSU or OSU on the road? Because they haven't done it recently?...with Hoke or RR?

UM isn't coached by Hoke. 5-7 to 10-3. That speaks to coaching. You are selling UM short. Not saying you won't be right but the glass half empty eeks of not envy but denial.

Let me ask you a simple question. Very straightforward of you. How surprised were you that UM finished 10-3 and beat the c..p out of Florida? Why don't you think UM will be as good or better? Because they don't have Jake?

This is a fair question and I know you will accept the challenge.



RM
 
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Another thing Michnittlion....do you think Harbaugh and staff met YOUR recruiting expectations, exceeded them or fell short.

Just curious.



RM
 
Hey Michnittlion,


I respect your opinion but this opinion sounds eerily similar to the prediction of nddecker1. Remember him? He came on the board with the glass is half empty. Don't get me wrong...he had many good points but I told him that he was underestimating the coaching and some additions (Jake). I told him that I expected at least 8 wins and 9 was a definite possibility. Anything less than 8 wins would be a failure based on the roster.

Now to your perspective. It's reasonable but has a slight aura of denial and bias. Not saying that UM doesn't have something to prove (on the road) against good teams and UM has a question mark at qb. Let's be honest in the O'Korn (whomever) has something to prove and again on the road against quality teams that know how to win even with key losses (MSU).

That being said (my criticism of your viewpoint) is that you must be underestimating Harbaugh and staff. I believe OSU and MSU were both the better teams even though UM coulda/shoulda beat MSU. You are making the same mistake that nddecker1 made. Underestimating Harbaugh and his coaching.

He is a proven coach. He is going to develop this team and won 10 games this last year. This team returns some quality players (Butt, Lewis, Darboh, Chesson) and adds in others. Any decent qb play and some infusion of rb talent and this team is a top 10 team. Agree? I think you would. Why would a top 10 team not be able to beat a MSU or OSU on the road? Because they haven't done it recently?...with Hoke or RR?

UM isn't coached by Hoke. 5-7 to 10-3. That speaks to coaching. You are selling UM short. Not saying you won't be right but the glass half empty eeks of not envy but denial.

Let me ask you a simple question. Very straightforward of you. How surprised were you that UM finished 10-3 and beat the c..p out of Florida? Why don't you think UM will be as good or better? Because they don't have Jake?

This is a fair question and I know you will accept the challenge.



RM

Michigan made some big steps last year. Improving from 5-7 to 10-3 is no joke. I think I predicted 9-4 last year, so U-M did exceed my expectations. I do think the Bowl game is being over-valued a bit. Yes, U-M whipped Florida's ass, but (not Michigan's fault) that was about the weakest Bowl opponent possible: Florida STUNK late last year. Shoot, Michigan's 2 best wins in 2011 (VT and Nebraska) were better than their 2 best wins in 2015 (Florida and Northwestern).

That said, Michigan was ~15th best in America last year. (polls had U-M at 11 and 13, FEI had U-M at 16). Obviously, that's pretty good.

Will Michigan "at least hold steady at 15th" in 2016? Yes, very safe bet. Will Michigan be better in 2016? I think that's a safe bet too. But will Michigan be significantly better in 2016? I'm still not completely sure. QB, well who knows? It's a legitimate question mark. The defense sort of regressed late last year, there's a new DC, and LB is pretty wide open. Lots of nice recruits, yes, but only a few, the Rashan Gary types, are going to significantly contribute and star as early as their true freshman year.

OSU and MSU have question marks of their own in 2016, yes. But they're likely to be Top 15-ish (at worst) themselves. Urban has developed OSU into a borderline-robotic-machine that simply mercilessly reloads. And there's no doubt what MSU's attitude will be: the more hype for U-M, the more MSU winds up to punch Michigan in the mouth. After all, MSU has something to prove themselves! That's the competition. Given those games are on the road, I do think U-M needs to be significantly better in 2016. One can say I have discounted "the Harbaugh Factor." Maybe. Yes, he is very good, but so are Urban and Dantonio. They both have multiple division championships in the 2011-2015 era. Although, admittedly, they both trail David Shaw --- who has 4 of them in the 2011-2015 era! Harbaugh's next division championship will be his first ever at the Collegiate level.

We'll see. It's nothing but a meaningless educated guess. The clock just passed Midnight. So instead of 210 more days of predictions until the season starts ---- it's now only 209 more days!!!
 
Fun discussion but lets wade into a variable that no one can deny. Harbaugh can coach. If PSU fans recall -- most with delight -- MSU absolutely pounded UM into the ground in 2014. It was embarrassing. In one season, JH took those same guys and played MSU even which shows tremendous improvement in 12 months. And while this year's defense took a dive late in the season no one can also deny that injuries on the DL took away 3 starters. And no one can deny the secondary showed great leaps with proper coaching. Does anyone think JH will take a dive next season after working with this group for more than a few weeks?

btw, I am grateful that PSU become such a wonderful Farm Club for the Wolverines this year. What? 5 guys flipped to the good guys.
 
btw, I am grateful that PSU become such a wonderful Farm Club for the Wolverines this year. What? 5 guys flipped to the good guys.

I think you are misunderstanding the idea of "Farm Club." Prattville HS, Paramus Catholic, IMG Academy. THOSE are the Wolverines' farm clubs.

Just read about a Prattville assistant being hired at U-M. I'll bet $100 to a donut that an IMG guy gets hired in AA in the next 12 months.

Interesting things are afoot at the block M.
 
I think you are misunderstanding the idea of "Farm Club." Prattville HS, Paramus Catholic, IMG Academy. THOSE are the Wolverines' farm clubs.

Just read about a Prattville assistant being hired at U-M. I'll bet $100 to a donut that an IMG guy gets hired in AA in the next 12 months.

Interesting things are afoot at the block M.

Maybe coach Franklin should hire someone that can help him keep his job.
 
Although, admittedly, they both trail David Shaw --- who has 4 of them in the 2011-2015 era! Harbaugh's next division championship will be his first ever at the Collegiate level.

Wow, this is really amusing. Who built up the program to the point that Shaw is having that success? Do you think Harbaugh would have won those same division championships had he stayed at Stanford? This is some world class spin right here.
 
Wow, this is really amusing. Who built up the program to the point that Shaw is having that success? Do you think Harbaugh would have won those same division championships had he stayed at Stanford? This is some world class spin right here.

Call it spin .... fine. Whatever.

As I said (and you didn't quote) --- Harbaugh is very good. As you also know, I was among the minority of folk who thought U-M should have hired Harbaugh in December 2007. Point being: I do give Harbaugh his due.

But the Shaw/Harbaugh facts are facts. My apologies to any HarBots who took it personally.
 
Call it spin .... fine. Whatever.

As I said (and you didn't quote) --- Harbaugh is very good. As you also know, I was among the minority of folk who thought U-M should have hired Harbaugh in December 2007. Point being: I do give Harbaugh his due.

But the Shaw/Harbaugh facts are facts. My apologies to any HarBots who took it personally.

- - -

And one of the facts includes Harbaugh being the one who turned Stanford around. It wasn't Shaw.

You leave that out.

Go Blue. Always.
 
- - -

And one of the facts includes Harbaugh being the one who turned Stanford around. It wasn't Shaw.

You leave that out.

Go Blue. Always.

Of course Harbaugh turned Stanford around. I don't deny that.

But neither you nor RealityMan were asking me "why JH can't turn Michigan around." Of course he can --- he already has!. The question asked of me was "why I thought U-M might not beat OSU/MSU."

In other words: can JH take the NEXT step? Beat the elite teams, win a division title, win a conference Championship.

Call it spin if you will, but leading a collegiate program to that NEXT step --- that's still not on JH's resume. Not that it won't be, it just isn't as of the moment.

It's just a prediction. As you know, I've been wrong many times before :) Fair enough if others disagree.
 
Call it spin .... fine. Whatever.

As I said (and you didn't quote) --- Harbaugh is very good. As you also know, I was among the minority of folk who thought U-M should have hired Harbaugh in December 2007. Point being: I do give Harbaugh his due.

But the Shaw/Harbaugh facts are facts. My apologies to any HarBots who took it personally.

I prefer Harbought$. Thanks.
 
Come on Michnittlion. Come on. You are much to smart to try and convince 'us' that Harbaugh hasn't proven he isn't a great coach capable of taking UM to the next level because he hasn't didn't do it as Stanford.

What do you call a Super Bowl appearance. It would like you saying JOHN Harbaugh hasn't proven he can coach at the college level or for that matter a guy like John Gruden, You don't really think Harbaugh won't win eventually at a big time level at UM do you?

I don't believe that and neither do you. Your point is that since he hasn't done it then he has to prove he can do it. How about looking at it this way. YOU are right...factually he hasn't won a Pac 12 or Big Ten championship but let me ask you this following question.

If I said to you that a Super Bowl coach was to become the head coach at PSU, took essentially the same players as when Franklin was coach (5-7) and then went 10-3 albeit with a different qb (backup from a conference rival) and then landed a top 5 recruiting class...would you accept my premise that this coach was not going to win a conference championship and get to the BCS in the near future at PSU because factually it hasn't be done prior to his arrival as PSU?

By the way...do you think Harbaugh exceeded, met or failed to meet your recruiting expectations for this last class? If exceeded on the coaching front and the recruiting front...do you think that indicates great things going forward or is that yet to be determined because it hasn't happened? Talk to me about probabilities.



RM
 
Come on Michnittlion. Come on. You are much to smart to try and convince 'us' that Harbaugh hasn't proven he isn't a great coach capable of taking UM to the next level because he hasn't didn't do it as Stanford.

What do you call a Super Bowl appearance. It would like you saying JOHN Harbaugh hasn't proven he can coach at the college level or for that matter a guy like John Gruden, You don't really think Harbaugh won't win eventually at a big time level at UM do you?

I don't believe that and neither do you. Your point is that since he hasn't done it then he has to prove he can do it. How about looking at it this way. YOU are right...factually he hasn't won a Pac 12 or Big Ten championship but let me ask you this following question.

If I said to you that a Super Bowl coach was to become the head coach at PSU, took essentially the same players as when Franklin was coach (5-7) and then went 10-3 albeit with a different qb (backup from a conference rival) and then landed a top 5 recruiting class...would you accept my premise that this coach was not going to win a conference championship and get to the BCS in the near future at PSU because factually it hasn't be done prior to his arrival as PSU?

By the way...do you think Harbaugh exceeded, met or failed to meet your recruiting expectations for this last class? If exceeded on the coaching front and the recruiting front...do you think that indicates great things going forward or is that yet to be determined because it hasn't happened? Talk to me about probabilities.



RM

Fine --- disagree. It's nothing more than a prediction. I'd say the same thing if PSU hired an NFL coach. We'll see ..... starting 206 days from now.

As for Harbaugh and recruiting --- seems like he met expectations. At this time last year, there was talk Michigan would only have 17 spots or so, but JH did some things to move that number upward to around 28. Given the number he signed and all the PR around Michigan the last 12 months, a Top 5 class was nothing unexpected.
 
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