Not one day of the Beilein era have I wavered in support...

[maelfan]

of him but win or lose tonight, at the 13:14 mark, down 52-38, it's time for change.

This team has been flat as a pancake sll year. Not enough player improvement.

For someone who is an offensive genius to have his team virtually have no offensive flow, at home , vs PSU is inexcusable.

 

[Reality Man]

Gotta disagree. I was thinking of posting when UM was down by about 10 or so. This is a transition year. UM is not going to win big with this team. Let's just make the tourney.

Next year is when UM should start turning the corner upward. Matthews taking the place of Irvin and hopefully Watson, Poole and Brooks can give something to this team. Hopefully X and Teske improve.

I see next year as better since Matthews replaces Irvin and the combo of guards can offer more of a threat than a single pg of Walton. This is contingent on Wagner staying.

Remember, Wilson should hopefully get better plus Livers may be able to add something. It will take a little while but this year is the transition year.


RM

 

[MWBLUE23]

I agree that next year's team can be solid. I keep hearing about NBA scouts being interested in Wagner and DJ. As much potential as they have, I don't think they are ready after this year. I really hope they both come back.

 

[maelfan]

I said win or lose in my OP because it gets to a point where haphazard acceptable results so to speak don't speak as loud as what the overall situation clearly is.

He has 3 seniors on this team who are no more effective this year than they were three to four years ago. He has two point guards, neither of whom are any better at dribble drive/distribution than they were when they started. Maybe they are limited players, maybe not, but great coaching sees coaches figure out a way when certain things are not working.

His offensive genius should be able to overcome whatever supposed lack of talent they have. Our offense last year and now for most of this year has been substandard at best.

The overwhelming amount of games the last two years where for the bulk of a game, getting a good shot for us is like pulling teeth is not acceptable, especially for a coach who is known for his expertise in that area.

Great guy.

Accomplished amazing things here, especially considered we may have one of the worst ten overall environments for basketball among the power 5 schools, and of course many non power five schools. Maybe worst one or two fan bases in the big ten. It's not easy to build a program at UM.

Never wavered til a week or so ago. Glad to hear many times on WTKA this week that several hosts have been speaking in similar tones about the program because it is true. Limitations or not due to being a football school, having crappy fans and an awful athletic department when it comes to paying attention to the program, we need a change.

And due to the status of our program, the change, somehow, has to be a guy that has the charisma and balls to come in here and demand better from the fans and the AD. Who is that guy? I have no idea. But I am not the AD, that is his job.

 

[wolverines74]

of him but win or lose tonight, at the 13:14 mark, down 52-38, it's time for change.

This team has been flat as a pancake sll year. Not enough player improvement.

For someone who is an offensive genius to have his team virtually have no offensive flow, at home , vs PSU is inexcusable.

PSU beat MSU today by 10 at EL! "74

 

[ChicagoBlueFan]

of him but win or lose tonight, at the 13:14 mark, down 52-38, it's time for change.

This team has been flat as a pancake sll year. Not enough player improvement.

For someone who is an offensive genius to have his team virtually have no offensive flow, at home , vs PSU is inexcusable.

Love the offensive genius where we just randomly pass it around the perimeter and somebody eventually jacks a 3 with nobody remotely in position to rebound. We did that several possessions in a row today.
I have major issues with JB and his aversion to rebounding/inside scoring. His continual recruiting as if he is still at West Virginia is a problem, too.

 

[Reality Man]

I said win or lose in my OP because it gets to a point where haphazard acceptable results so to speak don't speak as loud as what the overall situation clearly is.

He has 3 seniors on this team who are no more effective this year than they were three to four years ago. He has two point guards, neither of whom are any better at dribble drive/distribution than they were when they started. Maybe they are limited players, maybe not, but great coaching sees coaches figure out a way when certain things are not working.

His offensive genius should be able to overcome whatever supposed lack of talent they have. Our offense last year and now for most of this year has been substandard at best.

The overwhelming amount of games the last two years where for the bulk of a game, getting a good shot for us is like pulling teeth is not acceptable, especially for a coach who is known for his expertise in that area.

Great guy.

Accomplished amazing things here, especially considered we may have one of the worst ten overall environments for basketball among the power 5 schools, and of course many non power five schools. Maybe worst one or two fan bases in the big ten. It's not easy to build a program at UM.

Never wavered til a week or so ago. Glad to hear many times on WTKA this week that several hosts have been speaking in similar tones about the program because it is true. Limitations or not due to being a football school, having crappy fans and an awful athletic department when it comes to paying attention to the program, we need a change.

And due to the status of our program, the change, somehow, has to be a guy that has the charisma and balls to come in here and demand better from the fans and the AD. Who is that guy? I have no idea. But I am not the AD, that is his job.

UM basketball fans want a winner. Very good facilities. I don't think UM has a bad basketball basketball environment at all. Not great but what they do have is a mediocre recruiter in JB.

It's a football school but it will get behind a winning bball program but JB wouldn't recruit well at UK. He is what he is. The real question in my mind is how long is JB going to last at a major program like UM? UM may not be a top 10 program but it isn't WVU or Iowa. It should be top 20 but it isn't.

Next year I believe is when JB is going to start feeling some major heat. I don't think what happened 4-5 years ago and the fact that UM has been burned by improprieties is enough to save his job. It's money (tickets) and fans want to see results and a high level of performance.

I do believe JB is trying to turn the corner and there are some things to be optimistic about going forward but he is on the clock and the question is whether Manuel will pull the plug after next year or two. A nice guy will only get you so far. .500 BT basketball is not good enough for UM.


RM

 

[Reality Man]

In regards to this year it's pretty simple. You aren't winning BT championships with Irvin and Walton.

This is why I am looking forward to next year to see X, Brooks, Watson, Poole and Matthews.

Let me see what these guys bring to the table next year. Give me to the middle of the BT season and I will be able to tell you if JB is going to make it. JB deserves plenty of criticism for HIS roster. It's his program and he dug himself this hole.


RM

 

[maelfan]

I agree that if Wilson and Wagner are still around that this team has potential next year.

However I'm not convinced. Player development overall has faded. I actually thought he worked miracles last year just to be in the tourney, even though I blame him for poor overall offensive production. But this year is different. Something isn't right.

Not sure what but something isn't right and it's not at all just overall talent.

 

[wolverines74]

My son went to WVU and has said a few times it takes several years of growth to learn his system. One they grow in it they are completive. Then they graduate ,or go Pro, and we start allover again. Scary if he is correct. GBGB"74

 

[Reality Man]

Being a mediocre recruiter only exacerbates the problem. What your son is saying is JB needs 4 years with a guy which is why Morgan, Novak and Douglas added value in their 4th year. Interesting.

What isn't is that Irvin is a flawed scorer. Look, if you trade Irvin for Stauskas then you tell me how UM would be doing as a team? A lot better if you ask me. Much better.

I think fans really don't appreciate how ONE player can make an enormous difference on a basketball team. Keep Irvin and trade Walton for Burke.

This roster is getting better and UM isn't that far away based on the development of Wagner/Wilson. Matthews could be the difference or Poole. As I have said before, having Irvin be inconsistent (although playing smarter ball shooting mid range and when he doesn't turn the ball over) and having Chatman flame out has caused the current situation.

This team has most of the pieces to be successful when you factor in next year. The question remains is how long will it take the new guys to get up to speed. I'll judge JB and the future of this program next February.


RM

 

[wolverines74]

Being a mediocre recruiter only exacerbates the problem. What your son is saying is JB needs 4 years with a guy which is why Morgan, Novak and Douglas added value in their 4th year. Interesting.

What isn't is that Irvin is a flawed scorer. Look, if you trade Irvin for Stauskas then you tell me how UM would be doing as a team? A lot better if you ask me. Much better Really agree.Nik was tough!

I think fans really don't appreciate how ONE player can make an enormous difference on a basketball team. Keep Irvin and trade Walton for Burke.

This roster is getting better and UM isn't that far away based on the development of Wagner/Wilson. Matthews could be the difference or Poole. As I have said before, having Irvin be inconsistent (although playing smarter ball shooting mid range and when he doesn't turn the ball over) and having Chatman flame out has caused the current situation.

This team has most of the pieces to be successful when you factor in next year. The question remains is how long will it take the new guys to get up to speed. I'll judge JB and the future of this program next February. Can't wait until next February. bow a whole season. Hopefully THIS February. And I miss Bacari a lot and the other assistant. GBGB"74

]

 

[MWBLUE23]

They have a couple of winnable games coming up against Illinois and Nebraska. Hopefully they can build some positive momentum before they have to face the tougher conference teams like Purdue and Wisconsin.

 

[tarun262]

"who's got it better then us" in basketball??? Apparently everyone.

Time for JB to go - how do you have 6 rebounds at half with 1 for your bigs combined? JB likes to recruit players that love the 3 and are purists - aka, perform really well in non-contact drill but are afraid of contact or going down low and any team that is willing to bang and bruise will always beat us - regardless.

JB is building teams on paper and this team just like last year has had zero toughness. No leaders, nothing. He has failed to recruit players like Stauskas or Burke or Zach that were leaders and fired the team up and instead he has recruited the entire Mr. Nice Guy team.

I know for a FACT there somewhere out there is a 2-star kid that is a bruiser that loves to play down low but can't shoot 3's. Recruit him!!@!

 

[maelfan]

Nice guy. Great guy. It's over and I'll put it as simply as this.

If our football looked like this for three straight years he would be gone.

This team has enough talent and is experienced enough to not look this bad in four winnable big ten games. It's not even just losing although that matters. We look terrible on both ends and had one fluky win vs a crap PSU team.

It's over. If basketball matters one lick to Manuel , and it should matter a lot, we make a move. But he won't.

Maybe 7000 screaming spartys in crisler next month routing us by 20 will be enough.

 

[maelfan]

A crap team is on a 35-14 run right now at 67-48. And we can't even get a normal basketball shot in the flow of the offense. Where's the offensive genius?

 

[ChicagoBlueFan]

"who's got it better then us" in basketball??? Apparently everyone.

Time for JB to go - how do you have 6 rebounds at half with 1 for your bigs combined? JB likes to recruit players that love the 3 and are purists - aka, perform really well in non-contact drill but are afraid of contact or going down low and any team that is willing to bang and bruise will always beat us - regardless.

JB is building teams on paper and this team just like last year has had zero toughness. No leaders, nothing. He has failed to recruit players like Stauskas or Burke or Zach that were leaders and fired the team up and instead he has recruited the entire Mr. Nice Guy team.

I know for a FACT there somewhere out there is a 2-star kid that is a bruiser that loves to play down low but can't shoot 3's. Recruit him!!@!

I find it amazing that 99.9% of coaches think that rebounding and inside play are important, and we found the one coach who seems to detest both. Please put him out of his misery and let him coach a mid-major (which is how he recruits, maddeningly enough).
Is Duncan Robinson the softest player ever? He's in the conversation. The perfect JB recruit.

 

[tarun262]

We have 3 Srs, 2 Jrs, 2 Sophs in your 7 man rotation and this is supposed to be a "transitional year"? Reality Man, what universe do you live in? Nevermind, sorry I asked!

 

[Reality Man]

I basically didn't watch at least 1/2 the game because the defense (Wagner) was just gawd awful.

Transition year away from the JB 3 pt shooting system to a more traditional offensive system. He doesn't have the right players.

Now..here is why he should get 1 more year and maybe 2 depending on how next year goes.

1. He will have both Wagner/Wilson who look to be developing. Exclude tonight for Wagner who had a tough matchup

2. Teske who will give UM some size next year and hopefully will replace Donnal

3. Livers should be a guy who will add depth. Let JB have another year with his new recruits.

4. Poole and Brooks are clearly more talented that some other guys.


Now...questions remain with X/Watson but I think JB should get 1 more year to show what he can do with Irvin/Walton gone which replaced with Matthews & 3 pg combo may be an improvement.


JB has no one to blame but himself. He missed out on the recruiting trial and replaced his misses with MAAR/Dawkins/Robinson and had basically busts with Chatman/Irvin.

It happens and JB has clearly tried to rectify these errors but Rome wasn't built in a day or in this case...Ann Arbor basketball. This is a relatively young team. It is. It's only a mature team when you factor in Irvin and Walton who are inconsistent and not guys who can carry a team on a nightly basis.

JB is on the clock. If I was Manuel I would let him know next year he has to show a brighter future or the plug will possibly get pulled. JB owns this team and the corresponding busts on it.



RM

 

[tarun262]

You do know that DJ Wilson has been with the program for 3 years and is still soft? In basketball, you don't need to sit out and develop over 3 years to create a good team - in fact, most good teams are led by 18-19 year old kids, not 22 year old kids. I have no faith that any of these players will develop. They are all 3 happy, hate playing defense, think they get dirty and have to shower if they go for contact, just soft across the board.

Maybe you have an in with JB but he LOVES the 3 versus a down low player and he has never recruited for it nor is he doing it. DJ and Wagner both marginally improved because there was nowhere but up for them to go. MAAR, Irvin, Walton, Robinson, and Donnal have all regressed. This program is not going to get better unless you have an alpha male leader that is just incredibly vocal and cocky and puts the team on his back - ala Stauskas, Burke, Novak, Morris, etc. Simpson, Teske, Davis, Poole, etc - none of those guys are that if you read the scouting reports. JB recruits super nice guys that are incredibly nice on and off the field and that's great but his entire team is full of compliments versus a leader. You can't "become" a leader - you have to have that trait. He hit the jackpot over a 2 year period with Burke, Stauskas, and Caris but it's all been misses since.

 

[MWBLUE23]

Michigan's success next season depends on whether Wagner decides to return to Ann Arbor or go to the NBA. While he has shown solid potential, he isn't close to being ready for the next level, especially on the defensive end. Hopefully he will make the right decision.