His outside shooting has always been streaky but it seems his overall game is struggling this year. His shot looks bad and his defense, rebounding and ballhandling are also liabilities right now. Levert is the only one playing at a high level....nobody else is playing good at this point. Donnal is obviously a bust but Kam Chatman is also beginning to look like a bust. Walton is not playing well either and Spike obviously isn't back to normal yet. Dawkins is also not playing up to his capability and Robinson only helps when he is making three pointers which wasn't happening tonight. Overall this team is just playing bad right now. The only good news is that it's early in the season and we have a lot of time to improve.
Irvin is really struggling...
- Thread starter Mroad
- Start date
I hate hate hate when Irvin starts chucking 3 pointers. I thought he left that part of his game at the end of the last 3rd of the season but maybe bad habits are hard to break or he is just hesitant to make contact right now.
All I know is when he starts launching those 3 point shots I just roll my eyes and my blood pressure rises. He has the Ron Coleman disease. He makes one and misses 4 and he only remembers the one he made.
JB mentioned the venue may have had something to do with the bad shooting night and I'll go along with that since Robinson had a poor shooting night.
All I know is if UM doesn't get at least 25 points from Irvin, Dawkins and Robinson a night then the season is going to be a disaster because Chatman isn't going to score. Doyle is limited, Wagner and Wilson are raw.
Starting to believe this team is going to need a couple of months and by that time they will be done.
Let's be honest...if UM struggles this year then the pressure is going to be ratcheted up on JB to change his system/style.
RM
For a player that is considered a three point shooter I've never seen a guy that misses shots so badly. Yes, occasionally Irvin is on and scores a lot of points but he seems to be off way more than he is on. Furthermore, he rarely drives to the basket to score which really limits his effectiveness. I know some people on this board believe he will be a future NBA player but I just don't see it.
Irvin is a talented player but what made him effective toward the end of the last year was his willingness to rebound and assist and get to the hoop and get fouled. He has reverted back to the 3 pt chucking machine. He can make 2 out 3 and then miss the next 3 and then he carries this on for a few games. From what I have seen from Irvin since his frosh year is about 20% 3 pt shooting which in all honest is very poor.
I hope this changes. Maybe he can't get too physical right now but this team needs him to be the jack of all trades, less 3 pts (1-2 at the most per game) and defer the long ball to Dawkins and Robinson. If Irvin does what he was doing last 6-8 games then this team can find it's indentity.
He chucks 3 pter's then UM won't be that good because the #4 has to score and create in this offense.
RM
I hope this changes. Maybe he can't get too physical right now but this team needs him to be the jack of all trades, less 3 pts (1-2 at the most per game) and defer the long ball to Dawkins and Robinson. If Irvin does what he was doing last 6-8 games then this team can find it's indentity.
He chucks 3 pter's then UM won't be that good because the #4 has to score and create in this offense.
RM
I started this thread last week but Irvin is having another very bad games...chucking up three pointers that nearly knock down the back board, turnovers and playing very average defense. He is most certainly not helping the team right now but Beilein is sticking with him. At what point does he give another player some of his minutes?
You and I obviously see things very differently. I don't know what to say if you think Irvin had a good game tonight. He threw a few shots up that nearly knocked the backboard over and had two horrible turnovers, one of them at a critical junction of the game. Furthermore, I bet you he didn't have more than 3 rebounds and played most of the game. Go to MGOBLOG and see what other UM fans thought of his play tonight.
Irvin is hurt. He will be fine. Once he gets healthier and Dawkins frickin wakes up, this team will be pretty dangerous.
UM is FAR from running on all cylinders right now yet they have still played very well for 3 straight games.
In fact, being down 8 with 4 minutes left to UConn was only because they shot poorly. The floor game vs. UConn was fantastic. Even below average shooting instead of awful shooting may have won that game.
UM is FAR from running on all cylinders right now yet they have still played very well for 3 straight games.
In fact, being down 8 with 4 minutes left to UConn was only because they shot poorly. The floor game vs. UConn was fantastic. Even below average shooting instead of awful shooting may have won that game.
Irvin has always been a streaky shooter, even when he's healthy. I'm surprised Beilein would play him so much if he's not fully healthy...he played a lot of minutes tonight. I hope he gets in top form before the start of the Big Ten season because we can't have a player on the court shooting 20%, particularly a guy that is supposed to be a scorer on the team.
I like Irvin...but when he is dishing and driving and rebounding. He is very effective at the #4 spot. He has some untimely to's but makes some good passes.
I DON'T like Irvin when he starts launching what most people would call clankers or bricks. Have you seen some of these shots this year or even last year? He is not a good 3 pt shooter. Looks like his release point is higher (good) but leave the 3 pt shooting to Robinson, LeVert, Dawkins and Walton.
What is Zak shooting this year from 3 pt range...10%...maybe lower? When he chucks up a 3 pointer...the rebounding teammate is better off outside the key
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Zak should not shoot more than 3 per game at the most. I did note him restraining himself on some attempts. I cringe if he makes the first one because then he will go crazy. Guy is a good player when he doesn't shoot 3 pt'ers. That simple.
RM
I DON'T like Irvin when he starts launching what most people would call clankers or bricks. Have you seen some of these shots this year or even last year? He is not a good 3 pt shooter. Looks like his release point is higher (good) but leave the 3 pt shooting to Robinson, LeVert, Dawkins and Walton.
What is Zak shooting this year from 3 pt range...10%...maybe lower? When he chucks up a 3 pointer...the rebounding teammate is better off outside the key
.Zak should not shoot more than 3 per game at the most. I did note him restraining himself on some attempts. I cringe if he makes the first one because then he will go crazy. Guy is a good player when he doesn't shoot 3 pt'ers. That simple.
RM
Irvin is shooting poorly which nobody can deny. The weird thing is that his misses just don't miss by a little, they look like an 8 year old throwing the ball against the backboard...they are the epitome of bricks. Furthermore, he doesn't drive well to the basket which is what he should be doing when he isn't making outside shots. As a junior in the program I expected much more....and we are going to need his play to improve dramatically in Big Ten play.
I hear you...he deserves some slack because he is coming off the injury but he wasn't too good of a 3 pt shooter last year.
Let me look up the figures.
RM
Let me look up the figures.
RM
35.5% 3 pt fg.
Shooting about 18% so far...let's give him the benefit of the doubt he can get up to 30%.
Should Zak be shooting when Robinson/Dawkins/Walton/LeVert are shooting probably a combined 50% right now.
Less 3 pt'ers from Zak and more attacking the hoop and pull up stuff. Zak is a good player and a vital part of this team because he brings something Robinson and Dawkins don't...a guy who can score going to the rim or dishing off the dribble. A unique skill set for a #4.
Love Zak plus he is tough down low. That 3 pt shot he made yesterday..that wasn't the prettiest looking shot He looks honestly like a guy who is going to shoot about 25% at best on average...1 out of 4 every game.
3 pts for 4 shots or as Dylan would say..less than 1.0 pt per possession. Hurting the team with that percentage. I support Zak taking no more than three long balls per game on average...preferably two.
RM
I see Irvin as the guy doing the dirty work for this team. Being a facilitator. He is good at it. Leave the 3 pt shots for the other guys. Plenty of 3 pt shooters on this team now. No need for more.
Shooting about 18% so far...let's give him the benefit of the doubt he can get up to 30%.
Should Zak be shooting when Robinson/Dawkins/Walton/LeVert are shooting probably a combined 50% right now.
Less 3 pt'ers from Zak and more attacking the hoop and pull up stuff. Zak is a good player and a vital part of this team because he brings something Robinson and Dawkins don't...a guy who can score going to the rim or dishing off the dribble. A unique skill set for a #4.
Love Zak plus he is tough down low. That 3 pt shot he made yesterday..that wasn't the prettiest looking shot
He looks honestly like a guy who is going to shoot about 25% at best on average...1 out of 4 every game.3 pts for 4 shots or as Dylan would say..less than 1.0 pt per possession. Hurting the team with that percentage. I support Zak taking no more than three long balls per game on average...preferably two.
RM
I see Irvin as the guy doing the dirty work for this team. Being a facilitator. He is good at it. Leave the 3 pt shots for the other guys. Plenty of 3 pt shooters on this team now. No need for more.
36 % on 7 attempts is good.
People are overreacting to these first few games and creating narratives. His back is still a work in progress and he is still getting a feel of things. I'm not worried about Zak's shooting at all. He has been taking it to the basket, rebounding, communicating on D and passing the ball extremely well.
If he is still shooting poorly come January then there might be an issue but right now I don't see one.
People are overreacting to these first few games and creating narratives. His back is still a work in progress and he is still getting a feel of things. I'm not worried about Zak's shooting at all. He has been taking it to the basket, rebounding, communicating on D and passing the ball extremely well.
If he is still shooting poorly come January then there might be an issue but right now I don't see one.
I don't know Guestavo. Saw him last year and he bricking away. I think he is a 25% 3 pt shooter at best and that is not good enough to take on this team with the other guys.
2-3 shots per game and I'll deal with it. What made him effective last year is when he started reigning in the attempts and started playing a mid-range/drive to the basket game plus assisting.
That is his game...not the long ball. He is the Dave Kingman of 3 pt shots.
RM
2-3 shots per game and I'll deal with it
. What made him effective last year is when he started reigning in the attempts and started playing a mid-range/drive to the basket game plus assisting.That is his game...not the long ball. He is the Dave Kingman of 3 pt shots.
RM
Overall, Irvin has never been a very good three point shooter. Does he occasionally have a game where he's hot? Of course, but he has more games where he does not shoot the ball well. I don't think I've ever seen a player at UM that was supposedly an outside shooter take so many shots that don't even come close to going in....I mean he has a lot of shots that are just way off. If his back is causing his poor shooting them he probably should not shoot as much, particularly since there are other guys that are shooting the ball very well.
Guestavo. Look at todays game...3 attempts. 2 were bricks and 1 was somewhat of a desperation attempt that went in.
When Zak shoots a 3 pt shot...it's like playing the lotto.
As a frosh 3 pt shooter...he was very good but clearly as reverted to his mean. His sophomore year he was coming into his own as a brick shooter and now right now...he isn't better than a 25% shooter at the 3 pt range. That is probably being nice.
Here is what I think you are missing. It's not that the ball misses but how badly he misses which tells you that the odds him making the shot aren't very high. The one 3 pt shot he made at NC State was ugly. I am proud of Zak and the staff for reigning him in and it looks like he is now focused on what he was doing late last year.
He knows he has plenty of 3 point shooters on the floor so Robinson and LeVert and Walton will open up the floor for him to do what he does best. I like Irvin...just don't have him shoot more than 3 times a game.
RM
When Zak shoots a 3 pt shot...it's like playing the lotto.
As a frosh 3 pt shooter...he was very good but clearly as reverted to his mean. His sophomore year he was coming into his own as a brick shooter and now right now...he isn't better than a 25% shooter at the 3 pt range. That is probably being nice.
Here is what I think you are missing. It's not that the ball misses but how badly he misses which tells you that the odds him making the shot aren't very high. The one 3 pt shot he made at NC State was ugly. I am proud of Zak and the staff for reigning him in and it looks like he is now focused on what he was doing late last year.
He knows he has plenty of 3 point shooters on the floor so Robinson and LeVert and Walton will open up the floor for him to do what he does best. I like Irvin...just don't have him shoot more than 3 times a game.
RM
