I hate to do this. I hate to do this. I support the team and the players...

[Reality Man]

but let's just say it. Chatman is a big bust so far. Sort of like Ward back in the day (most of his career). Different players but you get the point.

Bust. Just look at Edwards at Purdue. Making big contributions. Thank goodness for Doyle or otherwise this incoming class looks pretty mediocre on paper. It's early .

Anyone miss GR3 yet? . I do.



Reality Man

 

[guestavo]

I think making judgements on freshmen is foolish.

Irvin is the bust.

 

[Reality Man]

Not really. I don't think Irvin is the bust. He played well last year..

and he can do some stuff. He just needs to finish at the hoop. Played smarter today..starting to understand about diversifying his game. Plays harder defense. He is streaky but I wouldn't call him a bust. I would call him a guy that needs to keep improving.

I don't see LeVERT as a problem at all. Kid needs some help. Walton isn't playing great but he isn't a scoring pg.

Again..it comes down to balanced scoring. Look at it this way...Irvin & Chatman were about the same in rankings coming out of high school...correct?

Did Irvin give UM some stuff last year? Yes...but had a better team. What is Chatman giving this team? Basically zippo. That has to change.

Doyle has contributed to a big time win (Oregon?). Dawkins...Illinois. I can't point to a bigger game so far that Chatman has his fingerprints on the W. I thought he had one good game against weaker competition. This is a problem especially when he is replacing a main cog.

This isn't personal to Chatman. If Chatman plays better...this team would be better. Maybe not very good but better than it currently is playing. How about this...trade Chatman for Edwards (Purdue) and tell me if UM is 10-15% better? Of course.

Hard to quantify %


Reality Man

 

[Mroad]

I would say Irvin and Chapman have both been big disappointment this year. I'm beginning to think Irvin is simply a role/support player, rather than a guy capable of being a team leader. He needs to work on his overall game big time before he is a big difference maker. Chapman was supposed to be our best freshman but he clearly is having a tough time transitioning to the college game. I personally think he needs to get on a serious S&C program to get bigger and stronger. I certainly wouldn't say he is a bust this early in his career but I'm feeling awfully comfortable with my bet with guestavo that he won't be going to the NBA a little over a year from now!

 

[guestavo]

Year and a half!

Personally, I think JB either needs to put him in PnR or sit him. His talent is as a ballhandler and passer not standing in a corner waiting for a pass.

 

[Reality Man]

Guestavo & Mroad. First...I do agree guestavo that maybe

Chatman needs to be moved to the #5 in the JB system and play with Donnal so Chatman is on defense at the #4 but offense at the #5. Agree with you...Chatman is a guy who can do some of the things that Morgan could do on the PnR.

The problem is Doyle needs to play...so I am starting think Chatman needs to come off the bench.


In regards to Mroad. I don't think Irvin needs to come off the bench or be a role player. I think Irvin isn't ready to do the heavy lifting. Today (contrary to many people) was an improvement. He stopped relying on some many 3's. I think he is an overrated 3 pt shooter. He can make em but that shouldn't be the foundation of his game. Surprised he did well last year in that role.

It would be like relying on Walton to score from the 3 pt range. Irvin needs to draw more fouls driving to the hoop and start pulling up. His big challenge isn't talent...it's consistency in his game. Executing. Irvin needs help because he does look like he presses sometimes under pressure.

I stand by my comments. This team needs a legitimate 3rd primary scoring option to take a step forward. It really has to come from the #4 spot (Chatman or Donnal or Dawkins). Walton should be the facilitator.



Reality Man

 

[PBoiler84]

Hard to be too tough on Freshmen. Edwards at Purdue has played some games very well (leading scorer) and in other games hardly contributes. Not sure if it's match-up issues or intensity levels? After your run a couple years ago, Michigan has lost some talent and now have young guys that need to be developed. Purdue is in the same boat. Real inconsistent.

 

[Mroad]

RM, I didn't mean Irvin needs to come off the bench but I see him more as a support player rather than being a top 2-3 player on the team. Quite frankly, his outside shot is pretty darn ugly, I'm surprised it goes in as much as it does. He is a 6'6" wing that isn't a very good ball-handler and doesn't like to take the ball to the hoop. For a guy that plays a lot he seems to miss an awful lot of bunnies around the basket. I was hoping Irvin would have been a much improved player this year but that is clearly not the case which is hurting us. Kam just doesn't seem ready for this level of college basketball. He is more of a perimeter player that seems to get stuck in the corner but part of that is he is not strong or quick enough. He would benefit significantly from focusing serious on the S&C program....similar to Wilson.

 

[Reality Man]

I agree with you. On Irvin...I think he is a top 3 type of player

who has gotten better on the boards and has shown the ability to put the ball on the floor in certain situations. He has improved but what is distorting the view of some fans is his lack of consistency (being nice).

Irvin clearly needs to get better. He may not be the biggest problem on the team but he would be my #2. Shooting 20% from the floor...or even 30% isn't good enough. Today he showed more diversification in his game but he needs to complete/execute the drives and get to the hole.

I agree...his 3 pt shooting is not nearly good enough and he should change his game to adapt to his ability. He needs to stop launching so many 3's. He is sort of like Stu Douglas...very streaky early in his career. Got to know when to stop doing something that isn't working.

I think my post yesterday gave Irvin advice by looking at Trey Burke in the NBA...who was 0-11 the other night from 3 pt distance. NBA vs. College.

My whole point is right now...I see the Irvin getting to where he needs to be as a good BT player...Chatman has talent but is being misused as Guestavo mentioned. JB really needs to get something out of Chatman and develop. I thought Chatman would give UM something offensively...so far I couldn't be more wrong.



Reality Man

 

[Mroad]

Irvin really looks like a four year college player to me...I just don't see him going to the NBA any time soon. I think he is seeing there are areas of significant improvement in his game before he is ready to play professionally. Kam is obviously having trouble with the adjustment to D1 basketball. He's not the quickest or strongest player which I believe is contributing to his struggles. Like I mentioned earlier, he would benefit significantly from a serious S&C program.

 

[maelfan]

Are you kidding? It is so early. Some great college players even in today's

game still don't do much til their sophomore years or beyond. We knew the guy was not one and done. We knew he was not two and done. He may bust but 14 games into a freshman year to call anyone a bust is ridiculous.

 

[Reality Man]

I said he is a bust so far...but it's early. Would you agree...bust so far?

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