Can someone explain why a small segment of UM fans think the DT

[Reality Man]

recruiting is not up to snuff because 'we' aren't getting Solomon or Tufele?

Don't quite understand the pessimism. Doesn't UM have Ron Johnson, Dwumfour and even Kemp potentially? Jeter. Somebody is going to play inside. Vilian or Hatcher.

Just don't see it. Don't see the DL as a problem at all going forward. Can move Paea and still have Hudson. Ton's of talented bodies.

Got to give Brown credit but the roster on the defensive side of the ball looks good except maybe for a high end safety but Kinnel/Hudson may be those guys.

RM

 

[goblue31602]

recruiting is not up to snuff because 'we' aren't getting Solomon or Tufele?

Don't quite understand the pessimism. Doesn't UM have Ron Johnson, Dwumfour and even Kemp potentially? Jeter. Somebody is going to play inside. Vilian or Hatcher.

Just don't see it. Don't see the DL as a problem at all going forward. Can move Paea and still have Hudson. Ton's of talented bodies.

Got to give Brown credit but the roster on the defensive side of the ball looks good except maybe for a high end safety but Kinnel/Hudson may be those guys.

RM

You named one guy, maybe 2, that will play at the nose, and that's where we're lacking. IMO Jeter and Hudson will back up Hurst, and you have Dwumfour, and maybe Paea backing up Mone and that's about all we have to put an anchor at that position. Anyone else there and we're unlikely to be as effective. The whiff comment comes because Solomon and Tufele are absolute studs at a thin position, and we likely won't land either one.

CMH, Johnson, Kemp, Vilain, and Irving Bey will all likely play on the outside. It's possible for CMH and DIB to move inside, but not at the nose.

 

[BigHouseBallin]

You named one guy, maybe 2, that will play at the nose, and that's where we're lacking. IMO Jeter and Hudson will back up Hurst, and you have Dwumfour, and maybe Paea backing up Mone and that's about all we have to put an anchor at that position. Anyone else there and we're unlikely to be as effective. The whiff comment comes because Solomon and Tufele are absolute studs at a thin position, and we likely won't land either one.

CMH, Johnson, Kemp, Vilain, and Irving Bey will all likely play on the outside. It's possible for CMH and DIB to move inside, but not at the nose.

Agreed. You can never have enough talent in the trenches.. Also, if we want to win nattys our recruiting has to go up about 2 more notches. We're getting much closer though.

 

[Reality Man]

You named one guy, maybe 2, that will play at the nose, and that's where we're lacking. IMO Jeter and Hudson will back up Hurst, and you have Dwumfour, and maybe Paea backing up Mone and that's about all we have to put an anchor at that position. Anyone else there and we're unlikely to be as effective. The whiff comment comes because Solomon and Tufele are absolute studs at a thin position, and we likely won't land either one.

CMH, Johnson, Kemp, Vilain, and Irving Bey will all likely play on the outside. It's possible for CMH and DIB to move inside, but not at the nose.

I think Johnson can play the nose. Stout and quick...strong.

But back to Solomon...he looks like a strongside guy to me. Tufele...nose? Let me go check.

I think UM has plenty of guys on the line. I like my nose tackles to get low.


RM

 

[ecrosswhite]

We should have focused on the OL more. We should have secured two to three 5 stars here this year. We are still a couple of years behind Bama, Clemson,Ohio State and a few others in the recruiting area

 

[goblue31602]

I think Johnson can play the nose. Stout and quick...strong.

But back to Solomon...he looks like a strongside guy to me. Tufele...nose? Let me go check.

I think UM has plenty of guys on the line. I like my nose tackles to get low.


RM

I'm talking about ~300lb nose tackles. Ron Johnson weighed in at 245 his freshman year, you think he's ready for nose tackle? Solomon and Tufele are around 280 currently, with room to grow. They're both already insanely quick for their size. What's going to happen to Johnson if you add 50lbs? I'm not sure I want to find out.

 

[goblue31602]

We should have focused on the OL more. We should have secured two to three 5 stars here this year. We are still a couple of years behind Bama, Clemson,Ohio State and a few others in the recruiting area

This is a confusing post. You don't just choose to add 5* guys, you have to recruit them, and as luck would have it, everyone wants them. The staff thought they were getting Wilson, that didn't work out. We're likely signing 6-7 OL this year, so I'd say that's a pretty good focus. Guys like Ruiz and Filiaga will likely be ready to contribute next year.

 

[ecrosswhite]

This is a confusing post. You don't just choose to add 5* guys, you have to recruit them, and as luck would have it, everyone wants them. The staff thought they were getting Wilson, that didn't work out. We're likely signing 6-7 OL this year, so I'd say that's a pretty good focus. Guys like Ruiz and Filiaga will likely be ready to contribute next year.

That's kind of true, but you have a board with those you are targetting, those you are spending lots of recruiting money on and those you are just calling every now and then, those you are climbing trees with and those you send an offer letter and leave it at that. I think we should have had media events around the 5 star kids and climbed their trees and called them and took their no there out to dinner and had pro players reach out to speak to them, whatever wasn't against the rules ....and we didn't target 5-6 5stars let alone OL kids at the level in the right quantities knowing we wouldn't get them all... that's what I mean

 

[ecrosswhite]

Bama has enough 5 stars on their current team to fill the field with them on one side of the ball...huge gap from Michigan's talent level. That's a 247 fact. They figure out how to get them 5-6 every year. Why can't we?

 

[goblue31602]

That's kind of true, but you have a board with those you are targetting, those you are spending lots of recruiting money on and those you are just calling every now and then, those you are climbing trees with and those you send an offer letter and leave it at that. I think we should have had media events around the 5 star kids and climbed their trees and called them and took their no there out to dinner and had pro players reach out to speak to them, whatever wasn't against the rules ....and we didn't target 5-6 5stars let alone OL kids at the level in the right quantities knowing we wouldn't get them all... that's what I mean

Not every kid wants to go to Michigan, and not every 5* guy is a 5* according to the coaching staff. In fact, if you ask the staff, they think Steuber and Honigford are WAY more valuable than the recruiting rankings say.

 

[goblue31602]

Bama has enough 5 stars on their current team to fill the field with them on one side of the ball...huge gap from Michigan's talent level. That's a 247 fact. They figure out how to get them 5-6 every year. Why can't we?

Why can't everyone recruit like Bama? I think there are 127 teams that could ask that question every year. Saban has won 4 national championships at Bama and 5 overall. Harbaugh has won 0. Saban has a pipeline of 5*s that didn't happen overnight, and didn't happen with a little, um, extra "Southern style" help.

He also gets plenty of southern recruits who want to stay in the south. It's not as easy to recruit in the Midwest.

 

[ecrosswhite]

Why can't everyone recruit like Bama? I think there are 127 teams that could ask that question every year. Saban has won 4 national championships at Bama and 5 overall. Harbaugh has won 0. Saban has a pipeline of 5*s that didn't happen overnight, and didn't happen with a little, um, extra "Southern style" help.

He also gets plenty of southern recruits who want to stay in the south. It's not as easy to recruit in the Midwest.

Ohio state recruits in the Midwest, guess how many 5 stars they have committed right now? 5 , which is exactly one less than Bama. Guess who beat Bama for the first CFB NC? Ohio State in the Midwest with no "southern hospitality ". Clemson has two 5 star QB committed to their team 2017 and 2018 right now and a host of 5 stars this year. People who sat 5 stars are over rated don't have any. Bama and OTHERS, are crushing people with them..,sure some are flops, but when you have 5-6 entering each year , you can afford to have one never pan out. When you have none, you are everyone else. If we can't recruit 5 stars, we have to rely on luck... that sucks if that's what you are telling me. None of the teams that have been in the CFP since it started believe that when they are recruiting I bet

 

[goblue31602]

Ohio state recruits in the Midwest, guess how many 5 stars they have committed right now? 5 , which is exactly one less than Bama. Guess who beat Bama for the first CFB NC? Ohio State in the Midwest with no "southern hospitality ". Clemson has two 5 star QB committed to their team 2017 and 2018 right now and a host of 5 stars this year. People who sat 5 stars are over rated don't have any. Bama and OTHERS, are crushing people with them..,sure some are flops, but when you have 5-6 entering each year , you can afford to have one never pan out. When you have none, you are everyone else. If we can't recruit 5 stars, we have to rely on luck... that sucks if that's what you are telling me. None of the teams that have been in the CFP since it started believe that when they are recruiting I bet

You need to take a deep breath and maybe step away from following recruiting if you're worried about our recruiting class right now. Urban Meyer has 3 national championships, and the 2017 class is getting the recruiting bump from their recent national championship, and they're signing an unprecedented class. They've never signed a class this good, and likely wouldn't have signed a class this good had they not won it all. If we win a national championship, well sign a class similar to that. We currently have two 5* guys, and have a very solid shot at landing Najee Harris this coming weekend, who is the #1 overall guy.

And just to warn you, OSU is going to likely land two more 5* guys so go ahead and sit on the toilet for a while so you don't crap your pants at the news.

 

[Roady]

Bama could have played, had they so desired, a 5 star guy at every defensive position this year...an amazing stat.

 

[Reality Man]

I'm talking about ~300lb nose tackles. Ron Johnson weighed in at 245 his freshman year, you think he's ready for nose tackle? Solomon and Tufele are around 280 currently, with room to grow. They're both already insanely quick for their size. What's going to happen to Johnson if you add 50lbs? I'm not sure I want to find out.

Hurst is about 280 or so and Dwumfour at 300. I am one of those guys who prefer stout guys who can shoot the gaps and get low. I don't think you need to be 300 at all...just strong and about 275 or 280 is about right.

I know some UM fans are disappointed but UM will be fine.



RM

 

[ecrosswhite]

You need to take a deep breath and maybe step away from following recruiting if you're worried about our recruiting class right now. Urban Meyer has 3 national championships, and the 2017 class is getting the recruiting bump from their recent national championship, and they're signing an unprecedented class. They've never signed a class this good, and likely wouldn't have signed a class this good had they not won it all. If we win a national championship, well sign a class similar to that. We currently have two 5* guys, and have a very solid shot at landing Najee Harris this coming weekend, who is the #1 overall guy.

And just to warn you, OSU is going to likely land two more 5* guys so go ahead and sit on the toilet for a while so you don't crap your pants at the news.

If I want my team to win 10-11 games a year, then no, I shouldn't worry about our recruiting class. But I want to JH to have Nicks record over a 8 year period, so yes, I am worried and follow recruiting very closely. We are getting better, we are even "back" in terms of Michigan performance, but we are nowhere close to Bama and our class isn't even addressing our largest gap...OL. We have Kareem Walker who is last years #1 overall running back, Chris Evans and returning support...we don't NEED Harris, we NEED a 5 star OL man.. if you don't see that maybe you should take a step back and watch some of our games again. If you didn't notice, we lost to FSU who was never in the conversation for CFP really at all, we failed in every area that mattered, no Conf title, no CFP, lost our bowl game to the number 2 team in a conference in front of the world ...we need more talent

 

[goblue31602]

If I want my team to win 10-11 games a year, then no, I shouldn't worry about our recruiting class. But I want to JH to have Nicks record over a 8 year period, so yes, I am worried and follow recruiting very closely. We are getting better, we are even "back" in terms of Michigan performance, but we are nowhere close to Bama and our class isn't even addressing our largest gap...OL. We have Kareem Walker who is last years #1 overall running back, Chris Evans and returning support...we don't NEED Harris, we NEED a 5 star OL man.. if you don't see that maybe you should take a step back and watch some of our games again. If you didn't notice, we lost to FSU who was never in the conversation for CFP really at all, we failed in every area that mattered, no Conf title, no CFP, lost our bowl game to the number 2 team in a conference in front of the world ...we need more talent

FSU has a bad OL and yet Cook tore us up. An elite back can make an OL look good. Kareem Walker regressed a lot as a senior and his ranking dropped along with it, did he even end up the #1 back in the final rankings? Harris is ELITE and would immediately upgrade our rushing attack.

Kyle Kalis was really not that great, and yet he was a 5*. He wasn't terrible but he got smoked by FSU. Clemson just beat osu 31-0 and they start 3 4* guys and a couple 3* guys. We're getting a lot of very athletic talent this year but it's going to take a year or 2 for them to produce. Harbaugh is bringing in enough talent to win with, but he's going to have to prove it on the field before he lands a mega class like Bama or osu. If you don't get that, then you don't know much about recruiting. 2 ways to land a mega class: win a national championship, or cheat your ass off Ole Miss style.

 

[scfanblue]

Why can't everyone recruit like Bama? I think there are 127 teams that could ask that question every year. Saban has won 4 national championships at Bama and 5 overall. Harbaugh has won 0. Saban has a pipeline of 5*s that didn't happen overnight, and didn't happen with a little, um, extra "Southern style" help.

He also gets plenty of southern recruits who want to stay in the south. It's not as easy to recruit in the Midwest.

It has nothing to do with a "southern thing" if you can explain exactly what that is. Saban can get anyone he wants from anywhere in the United States because of several "things" that are pure facts. #1- Alabama has by far the BEST tradition in college football backed up by the amount of national championships they have won and because of that facts kids want to go there and play football. #2-Many of those top players go there to use it as a pipeline to the NFL and they will be developed under Saban to do so and they know it. #3-Many of those players are not thinking about their college education first when they attend Alabama. Some do, however, most do not because they know they can go back at any time after making millions of dollars to do so. Like it or not, Harbaugh is bringing that kind of kid into Ann Arbor. He can speak big on academics but he knows exactly how it works. These types of athletes have to be on the team in order to compete at the highest level each and every year. Michigan is going to start losing many of its players declaring earl very soon. Peppers is just the beginning. Players like Gary, Asisi, Evans, Crawford, etc.. will NEVER stay in Ann Arbor for 4 years. Ohio State was the first Big Ten team that developed this mentality under Tressel. Some say they have sold out to win at every cost, however it is the primary reason the Bucks have kicked Michigan's ass so much since 2000. Harbaugh has caught them in just 2 years though and they know it. Epic battles in the future with UM winning a bunch in the series very soon. It's a very simple formula. Do you want a football national championship or do you want a straight A English major who will become a public school teacher and high school coach in the future? Brag about academics all you want, I would say 99% of Michigan fans want to hoist the NC trophy!!!!!!!! instead of bragging about graduating their football players who would laugh at you about the subject anyways. Ask yourself why Michigan is all of a sudden getting these top notch recruiting classes. Because Harbaugh is a former NFL coach-Not because he likes Milk and promises their parents they will study for a history test. Sure Rashan Gary's Mom wants his education but Momma is not turning down a 22 million signing bonus either.

 

[Reality Man]

If I want my team to win 10-11 games a year, then no, I shouldn't worry about our recruiting class. But I want to JH to have Nicks record over a 8 year period, so yes, I am worried and follow recruiting very closely. We are getting better, we are even "back" in terms of Michigan performance, but we are nowhere close to Bama and our class isn't even addressing our largest gap...OL. We have Kareem Walker who is last years #1 overall running back, Chris Evans and returning support...we don't NEED Harris, we NEED a 5 star OL man.. if you don't see that maybe you should take a step back and watch some of our games again. If you didn't notice, we lost to FSU who was never in the conversation for CFP really at all, we failed in every area that mattered, no Conf title, no CFP, lost our bowl game to the number 2 team in a conference in front of the world ...we need more talent

Here is what I think you are missing. I say this with all due respect.

1. IF UM can get a 5 star performer at rb who pans out then that is actually better than a 5 star OL. He will have the ball in his hands.

2. Now...wasn't Kalis a 5 star? A lot of these guys are far from sure things. Ahhh...Derrick Green and Ty Isaac. Remember Jon Jansen. I think someone said about potentially moving Wheatley. Maybe even Hudson. Hopefully UM can develop these guys because many of these guys turn out to be great players who aren't 5 stars.

UM is doing plenty well at OL recruiting. Onwenu, Bredeson and Ruiz just based on stars. We will see.


RM

 

[goblue31602]

It has nothing to do with a "southern thing" if you can explain exactly what that is. Saban can get anyone he wants from anywhere in the United States because of several "things" that are pure facts. #1- Alabama has by far the BEST tradition in college football backed up by the amount of national championships they have won and because of that facts kids want to go there and play football. #2-Many of those top players go there to use it as a pipeline to the NFL and they will be developed under Saban to do so and they know it. #3-Many of those players are not thinking about their college education first when they attend Alabama. Some do, however, most do not because they know they can go back at any time after making millions of dollars to do so. Like it or not, Harbaugh is bringing that kind of kid into Ann Arbor. He can speak big on academics but he knows exactly how it works. These types of athletes have to be on the team in order to compete at the highest level each and every year. Michigan is going to start losing many of its players declaring earl very soon. Peppers is just the beginning. Players like Gary, Asisi, Evans, Crawford, etc.. will NEVER stay in Ann Arbor for 4 years. Ohio State was the first Big Ten team that developed this mentality under Tressel. Some say they have sold out to win at every cost, however it is the primary reason the Bucks have kicked Michigan's ass so much since 2000. Harbaugh has caught them in just 2 years though and they know it. Epic battles in the future with UM winning a bunch in the series very soon. It's a very simple formula. Do you want a football national championship or do you want a straight A English major who will become a public school teacher and high school coach in the future? Brag about academics all you want, I would say 99% of Michigan fans want to hoist the NC trophy!!!!!!!! instead of bragging about graduating their football players who would laugh at you about the subject anyways. Ask yourself why Michigan is all of a sudden getting these top notch recruiting classes. Because Harbaugh is a former NFL coach-Not because he likes Milk and promises their parents they will study for a history test. Sure Rashan Gary's Mom wants his education but Momma is not turning down a 22 million signing bonus either.

I never said anything about academics. I know exactly what kind of kids harbaugh is bringing in. It's just hard to land a boatload of 5* guys without a national championship. Bama got ahead in recruiting the way a lot of southern schools do, which was my point. The money networks down there are complicated and hard to catch, which is why they get away with it. Check out the noted traffic incidents last few years with Bama players. They're all coincidentally driving a Dodge. Yeah, not a coincidence, just hard to catch and the ncaa has to want to catch them, but the ncaa prez was Sabans boss at LSU and likes him.

 

[BigHouseBallin]

If I want my team to win 10-11 games a year, then no, I shouldn't worry about our recruiting class. But I want to JH to have Nicks record over a 8 year period, so yes, I am worried and follow recruiting very closely. We are getting better, we are even "back" in terms of Michigan performance, but we are nowhere close to Bama and our class isn't even addressing our largest gap...OL. We have Kareem Walker who is last years #1 overall running back, Chris Evans and returning support...we don't NEED Harris, we NEED a 5 star OL man.. if you don't see that maybe you should take a step back and watch some of our games again. If you didn't notice, we lost to FSU who was never in the conversation for CFP really at all, we failed in every area that mattered, no Conf title, no CFP, lost our bowl game to the number 2 team in a conference in front of the world ...we need more talent

Well, we need any 5* talents that want to come at this point. I agree we also need 5* talent on the OL/DL to start closing the gap on the elite programs.

 

[ArrowheadBlue]

Has anyone considered Stanford? Its recruiting base is approximately 200 kids from around the country. They win pretty consist ally, don't they? Actually some kids want to get an education as well as play sports. You guys write about the NFL millions but only a handful of all kids get those bucks. Its tough going back to college when you have no income. And you all can forget those star ratings. UM knows that; wasn't Ryan a low 3 star? I'd take a dozen or so Ryans, how about you?

 

[scfanblue]

Has anyone considered Stanford? Its recruiting base is approximately 200 kids from around the country. They win pretty consist ally, don't they? Actually some kids want to get an education as well as play sports. You guys write about the NFL millions but only a handful of all kids get those bucks. Its tough going back to college when you have no income. And you all can forget those star ratings. UM knows that; wasn't Ryan a low 3 star? I'd take a dozen or so Ryans, how about you?

And how many national championship trophies has Stanford captured? The discussion goes beyond consistent winning.

 

[ArrowheadBlue]

No but it supports the fact that smart guys can play football and go to college. Stanford's one loss seasons are better than 98 percent of other schools.

 

[scfanblue]

No but it supports the fact that smart guys can play football and go to college. Stanford's one loss seasons are better than 98 percent of other schools.

Smart guys can play football. Look at McCaffrey-smart enough not to play in a meaningless bowl to him because he is NFL bound. He would have played in the bowl had he not been NFL bound BUT doubtful Stanford would have been in a bowl with a player aspiring to become a biochemist instead of a pro football player at that level of college.

 

[DrCorona]

If I want my team to win 10-11 games a year, then no, I shouldn't worry about our recruiting class. But I want to JH to have Nicks record over a 8 year period, so yes, I am worried and follow recruiting very closely. We are getting better, we are even "back" in terms of Michigan performance, but we are nowhere close to Bama and our class isn't even addressing our largest gap...OL. We have Kareem Walker who is last years #1 overall running back, Chris Evans and returning support...we don't NEED Harris, we NEED a 5 star OL man.. if you don't see that maybe you should take a step back and watch some of our games again. If you didn't notice, we lost to FSU who was never in the conversation for CFP really at all, we failed in every area that mattered, no Conf title, no CFP, lost our bowl game to the number 2 team in a conference in front of the world ...we need more talent

FSU was AP preseason #4 in country, Phil Steele #2 in his power poll. Had one horrible game vs. Louisville, otherwise suffered 2 "Michigan type" heartbreak losses to Clemson & Carolina. They've had top notch recruiting classes recently. Make no mistake, they're CFP caliber.

 

[BigHouseBallin]

FSU was AP preseason #4 in country, Phil Steele #2 in his power poll. Had one horrible game vs. Louisville, otherwise suffered 2 "Michigan type" heartbreak losses to Clemson & Carolina. They've had top notch recruiting classes recently. Make no mistake, they're CFP caliber.

Agreed... mismanagement of talent or simply not coming out of top of a game or two is not necessarily a reflection of the talent on the roster. Clemson, Bama, FSU, OSU, etc are loaded..

 

[goblue31602]

Agreed... mismanagement of talent or simply not coming out of top of a game or two is not necessarily a reflection of the talent on the roster. Clemson, Bama, FSU, OSU, etc are loaded..

It was also their first game without Derwin James, who likely would have had a LOT to do with the gameplan to stop Lamar Jackson. They got shellshocked early and then just shut down. It was also only, what, game #3 for Francois?