What tape of MSU did Deyonta Davis and Caleb Swanigan watch....

[maelfan]

Was it 4 star Drew Naymick doing nothing in 5 years? Maybe it was 5 star Marquise Gray doing even less than Naymick in his 4 years. Or could it have been 5 star Derrick Nix doing nothing til his senior year and still not getting a sniff from the NBA? No, I know, it was the tape of 5 star Adrienne Payne being useless at the 4 or 5 until midway through his second to last year then barely getting a sniff from the NBA.

I give these guys credit if they are NOT looking to be the next Jabari Parker, Jahlil Okafor, Karl Antony Towns, Mitch McGary, etc....freshman who actually came in and were coached up their freshman year to the point where they were huge impact players by the end of that year...otherwise they are getting awful advice and were sold some snake oil from Izzo.

More power to them if they are looking for 4-5 year careers with a cinderella run to the final four. That is exactly what college basketball needs. Really good players like these two staying longer and actually developing rather than jumping to the NBA without being ready.

 

[24to12]

Izzo may have concluded from the final four that he needed to upgrade talent level -- coaching can only take you so far -- and that in order to sign these kids he now has to promise them playing time and an early opportunity to go pro. He may be changing his approach.

 

[Lake Tahoe Spartan]

Originally posted by maelfan:
Was it 4 star Drew Naymick doing nothing in 5 years? Maybe it was 5 star Marquise Gray doing even less than Naymick in his 4 years. Or could it have been 5 star Derrick Nix doing nothing til his senior year and still not getting a sniff from the NBA? No, I know, it was the tape of 5 star Adrienne Payne being useless at the 4 or 5 until midway through his second to last year then barely getting a sniff from the NBA.

I give these guys credit if they are NOT looking to be the next Jabari Parker, Jahlil Okafor, Karl Antony Towns, Mitch McGary, etc....freshman who actually came in and were coached up their freshman year to the point where they were huge impact players by the end of that year...otherwise they are getting awful advice and were sold some snake oil from Izzo.

More power to them if they are looking for 4-5 year careers with a cinderella run to the final four. That is exactly what college basketball needs. Really good players like these two staying longer and actually developing rather than jumping to the NBA without being ready.

You bring up some good points. Izzo has had his share of 5* players over the years and just about all of them have started out slowly. Zach Randolph may be the only exception. Others like Paul Davis, Marcus Taylor, and Payne were survivable in their first year. If your goal is to be one and done MSU is not a good choice. If your goal is to make the NBA one day; MSU is probably a average choice compared to the other top 25 programs. If your goal is to win at the college level MSU is hard to beat. I agree with you that MSU's style is not the most conducive to the NBA. However, you have 4-year players like Draymond Green and Mo Peterson that would had no shot at the NBA without 4 years of college. I for one like John Beilein and think his style is very conducive to the NBA. I believe this is why a number of Michigan's players have been drafted of late. I am sure this will continue.

 

[Digsy13]

Originally posted by Lake Tahoe Spartan:

Originally posted by maelfan:
Was it 4 star Drew Naymick doing nothing in 5 years? Maybe it was 5 star Marquise Gray doing even less than Naymick in his 4 years. Or could it have been 5 star Derrick Nix doing nothing til his senior year and still not getting a sniff from the NBA? No, I know, it was the tape of 5 star Adrienne Payne being useless at the 4 or 5 until midway through his second to last year then barely getting a sniff from the NBA.

I give these guys credit if they are NOT looking to be the next Jabari Parker, Jahlil Okafor, Karl Antony Towns, Mitch McGary, etc....freshman who actually came in and were coached up their freshman year to the point where they were huge impact players by the end of that year...otherwise they are getting awful advice and were sold some snake oil from Izzo.

More power to them if they are looking for 4-5 year careers with a cinderella run to the final four. That is exactly what college basketball needs. Really good players like these two staying longer and actually developing rather than jumping to the NBA without being ready.

You bring up some good points. Izzo has had his share of 5* players over the years and just about all of them have started out slowly. Zach Randolph may be the only exception. Others like Paul Davis, Marcus Taylor, and Payne were survivable in their first year. If your goal is to be one and done MSU is not a good choice. If your goal is to make the NBA one day; MSU is probably a average choice compared to the other top 25 programs. If your goal is to win at the college level MSU is hard to beat. I agree with you that MSU's style is not the most conducive to the NBA. However, you have 4-year players like Draymond Green and Mo Peterson that would had no shot at the NBA without 4 years of college. I for one like John Beilein and think his style is very conducive to the NBA. I believe this is why a number of Michigan's players have been drafted of late. I am sure this will continue.

There wasn't a decent point (well, perhaps in his conclusion) anywhere in maelfan's typical drivel. He was wrong on recruiting rankings, is completely ignorant of normal projection paths/outcomes, wrong on MSU's development track record. Also, lovely call including Mitch McGary in a sentence with Jabari Parker, Jahlil Okafor and Karl Anthony Towns...Perhaps a more apt comparison would have been to Naymick's fifth year...I mean they were probably closer both in terms of production and age...

This post was edited on 4/11 9:11 PM by Digsy13

 

[Hoophead]

maelfan, I can see why you can think that MSU is not a place for one and dones. After all, Zach is the only one we have had, but I think you are misguided. One and dones are recruited and not developed. Do you really think if MSU (or Michigan for that matter) had landed Derrick Rose, Jabari Parker, Boogie Cousins, Tyreke Evans, John Wall, Jhalil Okafor or Karl Anthony Towns that they would not have been a one and done recruit who landed in the NBA?

Secondly, I think you need to honestly ask yourself if jealousy is the deeper motivation behind your post. Just be honest with yourself.

You have a very good coach and you have had your share of NBA players under Belein. There is no need to put MSU down to try to prop Michigan up.

Hoop

 

[Cullen333]

I don't think it's fair to include rose, Parker cousins ect into the equation

In turn how would Summers, Lucas, Morgan, Davis, Brown, Allen, Nix, Appling and a handful of others perform and be showcased by a program like Michigan (under Beilein), UK, Duke and other programs who have recently been apart of the 1 or 2 and done theme.

Obviously no one will ever know, and it all depends on the player, fit ect but I think it's fair to say some of those players would have had better options.

No arguing Izzo's level of team/program success.

 

[bigtisback]

Was it 4 star Drew Naymick doing nothing in 5 years? Maybe it was 5 star Marquise Gray doing even less than Naymick in his 4 years. Or could it have been 5 star Derrick Nix doing nothing til his senior year and still not getting a sniff from the NBA? No, I know, it was the tape of 5 star Adrienne Payne being useless at the 4 or 5 until midway through his second to last year then barely getting a sniff from the NBA.

I give these guys credit if they are NOT looking to be the next Jabari Parker, Jahlil Okafor, Karl Antony Towns, Mitch McGary, etc....freshman who actually came in and were coached up their freshman year to the point where they were huge impact players by the end of that year...otherwise they are getting awful advice and were sold some snake oil from Izzo.

More power to them if they are looking for 4-5 year careers with a cinderella run to the final four. That is exactly what college basketball needs. Really good players like these two staying longer and actually developing rather than jumping to the NBA without being ready.

Izzo may have concluded from the final four that he needed to upgrade talent level -- coaching can only take you so far -- and that in order to sign these kids he now has to promise them playing time and an early opportunity to go pro. He may be changing his approach.

I think they see 20 years of excellence in the MSU program.

 

[Sparty1045]

Lol...UofM has had one great team in the last decade. Most of UofMs players that have, or had, NBA potential will end up sniffing the bench in the NBA(just like 90% of NBA draftees). Somehow this one group makes Beilien a better talent developer than Izzo? Keep dreaming!

 

[jimmysfly]

3 MSU players currently contributing extensively to their NBA squads, all in the playoffs:

Alan Anderson, Zach Randolph and Draymond Green

This just gets old from Wolverine fans. Unproven claims that get overturned - this case: 3 names.

 

[maelfan]

I guess Swanigan reads this message board. Very smart move by the young man.

 

[rm83]

Could be wrong of course, but I'd be stunned if he didn't end up at Cal.

 

[othello2]

Alan Anderson? Contributing? I love comedy!

 

[Sparty1045]

Alan Anderson? Contributing? I love comedy!

Alan Anderson averaged over 20mpg in the playoffs this year. He may not jack up a ton of shots(which of course means he's not contributing, right?) but he's a solid role player who can contribute in all areas of the game. He can do everything on the floor and is an above average defender. He is a better all around basketball player than Jamal "never seen a shot he didn't like" Crawford(who is the only UofM player in the playoffs).

P.S. I will not respond if you attempt to argue that Crawford is a better all around player. That would be comedy. I'm sure you will bring ppg stats into this discussion and show your inability to understand the game of basketball.

 

[guestavo]

Alan Anderson averaged over 20mpg in the playoffs this year. He may not jack up a ton of shots(which of course means he's not contributing, right?) but he's a solid role player who can contribute in all areas of the game. He can do everything on the floor and is an above average defender. He is a better all around basketball player than Jamal "never seen a shot he didn't like" Crawford(who is the only UofM player in the playoffs).

P.S. I will not respond if you attempt to argue that Crawford is a better all around player. That would be comedy. I'm sure you will bring ppg stats into this discussion and show your inability to understand the game of basketball.

Hahaahaahaahaahaahaahaahaahaahaahaahaahaahaahaahaahaahaahaaha

 

[othello2]

Nice playoff run for Anderson and the nets. Your killing me Homer.

 

[Sparty1045]

Nice playoff run for Anderson and the nets. Your killing me Homer.

The correct phrasing would be "you're killing me homer." But back to the topic at hand which is Anderson vs. Crawford. I would obviously give the nod to Crawford as the better scorer. But he has major faults in his game and will never be recognized as more than a chucker. He provides zero defense(he can only defend 2 guards, or shooters and is extremely weak even in this minor defensive role), a ball stopping offensive mentality, limited passing ability, and is a complete liability when his shot is not falling. Crawford is unable to play within a system/play team basketball which is why his scoring talents are rarely used at the same time as the all stars that comprise the Los Angelas Clippers. Alan Anderson is the complete opposite of Crawford and a much better ALL AROUND basketball player as I stated in a prior post. He is an above average defender and can defend three positions, albeit two very effectively. He's also an above average passer(as seen with his experience at point guard), an effective outside shooter, an above average rebounder at the guard position. Most importantly, he plays with a team mentality. A team full of Alan Andersons would destroy a team full of Jamal Crawfords and it probably wouldn't be close.

 

[DetroitRockCity]

The correct phrasing would be "you're killing me homer." But back to the topic at hand which is Anderson vs. Crawford. I would obviously give the nod to Crawford as the better scorer. But he has major faults in his game and will never be recognized as more than a chucker. He provides zero defense(he can only defend 2 guards, or shooters and is extremely weak even in this minor defensive role), a ball stopping offensive mentality, limited passing ability, and is a complete liability when his shot is not falling. Crawford is unable to play within a system/play team basketball which is why his scoring talents are rarely used at the same time as the all stars that comprise the Los Angelas Clippers. Alan Anderson is the complete opposite of Crawford and a much better ALL AROUND basketball player as I stated in a prior post. He is an above average defender and can defend three positions, albeit two very effectively. He's also an above average passer(as seen with his experience at point guard), an effective outside shooter, an above average rebounder at the guard position. Most importantly, he plays with a team mentality. A team full of Alan Andersons would destroy a team full of Jamal Crawfords and it probably wouldn't be close.

Who would have thought a Sparty would take Alan Anderson over Jamal Crawford even though JC has been one of the top players in the NBA for quite some time. But thank you
for clearing that up, Sparty.

 

[blockm2]

Alan Anderson averaged over 20mpg in the playoffs this year. He may not jack up a ton of shots(which of course means he's not contributing, right?) but he's a solid role player who can contribute in all areas of the game. He can do everything on the floor and is an above average defender. He is a better all around basketball player than Jamal "never seen a shot he didn't like" Crawford(who is the only UofM player in the playoffs).

P.S. I will not respond if you attempt to argue that Crawford is a better all around player. That would be comedy. I'm sure you will bring ppg stats into this discussion and show your inability to understand the game of basketball.

There is not one front office exec in the NBA that would take Alan Anderson ahead of Jamal Crawford. But please, continue telling us how you won't even respond when someone brings up that fact.

 

[Cullen333]

3 MSU players currently contributing extensively to their NBA squads, all in the playoffs:

Alan Anderson, Zach Randolph and Draymond Green

This just gets old from Wolverine fans. Unproven claims that get overturned - this case: 3 names.

The problem with this post is that two of those players played at MSU 15 years ago. Lol
Izzo not consistently developing pro kids isn't only UM propaganda, it's a shared thought in recruiting, and throughout the B1G. And it's true.

 

[roaringfork green]

There is not one front office exec in the NBA that would take Alan Anderson ahead of Jamal Crawford. But please, continue telling us how you won't even respond when someone brings up that fact.

Could you link that survey?

 

[blockm2]

Could you link that survey?

You mean the one showing Anderson only playing 6 seasons in the NBA in the last 14 years? Or maybe it's the one showing Crawford earning approximately 4.5x more money than Anderson.

Crawford is a very good NBA player and has been for years. Anderson was out of the league for a long time and is a role player on a team that was 6 games under .500 this year.

 

[roaringfork green]

You mean the one showing Anderson only playing 6 seasons in the NBA in the last 14 years? Or maybe it's the one showing Crawford earning approximately 4.5x more money than Anderson.

Crawford is a very good NBA player and has been for years. Anderson was out of the league for a long time and is a role player on a team that was 6 games under .500 this year.

No the one showing there isn't one front office exec. that would take Anderson over Crawford?

 

[blockm2]

No the one showing there isn't one front office exec. that would take Anderson over Crawford?

Sorry, I'll get back to you when I stop laughing at the idea anybody would take Anderson on their team ahead of Crawford.

 

[roaringfork green]

Sorry, I'll get back to you when I stop laughing at the idea anybody would take Anderson on their team ahead of Crawford.

I'm still waiting?

 

[blockm2]

I'm still waiting?

Sorry, it's going to be a while.