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way too early look at Big Ten next season (very long)

blockm2

Michigan Man
Jul 9, 2001
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well the 2014-15 Big Ten conference season played out pretty much exactly as expected (which is rare). Wisconsin was the class of the conference as they looked to be from before the first game was even played. Then there was a scrum of teams fighting for 2nd place behind them. Biggest surprise of the season was probably Nebraska returning the vast majority of their team from last year and totally bombing out. The only other relative surprises in the bunch were Purdue stepping up and finishing in the 4th seed (though they did so with a mostly easy schedule) and Michigan sliding down with injuries. Maryland may have been a bit of a minor surprise finishing in 2nd.

It was kinda scary how the season played out almost exactly to form. Kaminsky was the best player as he was supposed to be. Russell, Blackmon, and Trimble were all the real deal as we thought they'd be.

So what should next season look like in the conference? Well, for the first time in a while there doesn't figure to be a likely top 5 team fighting for a 1 seed in the tourney. Several key players will graduate such as Frank Kaminsky, Branden Dawson, Aaron White, Dez Wells, DJ Newbill, Rayvonte Rice, Shannon Scott, Travis Trice, and Josh Gasser. Others are considering early entry to the draft including D'Angelo Russell, Melo Trimble, Yogi Ferrell, AJ Hammons, Terran Petteway, Caris LeVert, and Sam Dekker (of that list Russell and Dekker are most likely IMHO). What freshman are coming in? Deyonta Davis, Jalen Coleman, JaQuan Lyle, Daniel Giddens, Austin Grandstaff, DJ Williams, Matt McQuaid, Glynn Watson, Corey Sanders, AJ Harris, Brevin Pritzl, Mike Watkins, Kevin Dorsey, and Josh Reaves (all 247 composite top 100) join the conference as well as maybe a late addition here or there. Very little elite talent, but lots of top 100 guys that could be difference makers down the road. Transfers Duncan Robinson and Eron Harris and Trevor Thompson will also eligible next season and injured players like Derrick Walton and Caris LeVert and Tracy Abrams figure to return.

So how do individual teams look?


Michigan
If Caris LeVert doesn't leave, they return everybody from a team that really came on late in the season. Then add in transfer Duncan Robinson and his 6'8" frame and lights out 3 point shooting. Then add back Derrick Walton and DJ Wilson. Not sure if Bielfeldt will stick around for 5th year or if high end European recruit Moritz Wagner will join the fray. Doesn't matter as they will be amongst the favorites to win the conference. Zak Irvin, Aubrey Dawkins, and Muhammed Ali Abdur-Rahkman grew by leaps and bounds this season. Young bigs Ricky Doyle and Mark Donnal flash a little potential and figure to grow with another off season in the weight room. Kam Chatman started to come on strong down the stretch. Spike Albrecht will be back as an offensive wizard off the bench. They will go from being the least experienced team in the conference by a mile (after Walton and LeVert went down) to one of the most experienced with all the starts their guys had this year. With Caris back it's a likely top 10 or 15 team (and potentially better) and even if he leaves it's a probable top 25 team. Too much talent, depth, and experience to expect anything else with a coach as great as Beilein.

Michigan State
They will lose Trice and Dawson, but return everybody else including Valentine, Forbes, Costello, and Schilling. They add in high end transfer Eron Harris as well as elite recruit Deyonta Davis. What to expect? Not sure. They don't really have a PG with Trice leaving. I mean they do in Nairns, but he's such a zero shooting the ball (eFG% 34% this year) that it really drags their offense down since you can double off him all day long and he's also so short he doesn't add much on defense. Eron Harris might want to play PG, but he's not really a PG (career assist rate 10%). I almost wonder if they will play a backcourt of Harris and Forbes but let Valentine function as the PG on offense. That could potentially be a very good lineup as it will be pretty big and able to defend well. They will be in the mix for the top of the conference as a likely top 20 team. I'm just not sold on their ability to get any offense in the post losing Dawson.

Maryland
They lose Wells, Smotrycz, Pack, Graham, and possibly Trimble. Trimble staying or going will be the major determinant of how good they are. If he stays, he's possibly the best PG in the conference next season. They've still got some talent, though, with the return of Layman, Dodd, Cekovsky, Nickens, and Wiley. With Trimble they are an easy top 25 team. Without him I have a hard time seeing it.

Wisconsin
Bye-bye probable NPOY Kaminsky, along with Gasser, Dukan, and injured Trae Jackson. Dekker is the major question mark. I suspect he's going to go. He's seen the Final Four, he's won the conference, he's projected as a borderline lottery pick, and he's playing the best basketball of his career. Probably not much upside for him to come back. If he leaves, that means Hayes and Koenig will have to carry a relatively very inexperienced team for Ryan. I really like both their games, but that's asking a lot. Maybe it'll be the year Wisconsin finally finishes outside the top 4, maybe it won't and they sneak in to 4th again. If Dekker is back they can challenge for the title, if not I don't think they can.

Purdue
The only senior they lose in Octeus, though nobody is sure if Hammons wants to leave or not. Even if he leaves I think they'd be fine at center with Haas there. Purdue was an interesting team this season, terrible out of conference, but a shiny conference record somewhat helped by an easy schedule and it landed them likely on just the right side of the bubble for the tourney. Next season you'd hope for a nice improvement from some of their youngsters like Edwards and Haas. They are a deep team but figure to be pretty weak at the PG position next season which will weight them down offensively. To me they seem likely to end up near the middle of the conference, though perhaps just above. Hard to challenge for the top when you have major questions at PG.

Indiana
The other team next to Michigan with no seniors this year. Yogi Ferrell is the only question mark to me as there is some suggestion from IU fans he'll head for the NBA. Everybody else should be back including difference makers Troy Williams and James Blackmon. Next season to me looks similar to this season except a little better if Ferrell comes back. A healthy Mosquera-Perea could really help, though. They have plenty of quickness and 3 point shooting, but still going to be relatively weak inside. Also still coached by Crean (or won't they be???) which hurts them. I think they end up somewhere in the 4th-8th place range in conference play. Hard to fall too far with that many shooters/scorers, but hard to get much better with no defense or interior punch.

Ohio State

They lose Scott, Sam Thompson, Amir Williams, Anthony Lee, Trey McDonald, and almost assuredly D'Angelo Russell. That's a ton of production. They bring in a big and talented freshman class, but it's going to be hard to be a very good team when your only returnees are Jae'Sean Tate, Keita Bates-Diop, Marc Loving, and Kam Williams plus the addition of transfer eligible Trevor Thompson. Matta is a great coach and I suspect he will have them solidly in the top half of the conference, I just don't see how they get near the top.

Iowa
Aaron White is finally graduating and will take with him Olaseni and Oglesby. White has been the heart of the Hawkeyes for 4 years as a scoring, rebounding, and foul drawing machine. They will miss him. They've still got plenty of upper class talent like Uthoff and Woodbury and Gesell to be in the top half of the conference and NCAA bubble land, but without White I have a very hard team seeing them any better than 5th or 6th place. Now if somebody like Peter Jok busts out and has a massive leap next year that could change, but you can say that about most teams. Iowa won't be bad next season, but they won't be great either.

Illinois
Sink or swim time for John Groce. He'll lose Rice, Egwu, and Starks but get back Tracy Abrams. Hill and Nunn figure to carry the load offensively and Black might step up as a sophomore. I just don't see the NCAA tournament happening for them. The team looks much the same as the last few. Getting Abrams back stabilizes the PG position, but he's been a below average Big Ten PG every season of his career. Will next year change for him? Maybe if the career 27% 3 point shooter spent 12 months working his jump shot but that doesn't seem likely (though if it did that would completely change how you'd have to defend them). Jalen Coleman should be a nice little boost to their offense next year but I don't think he can play PG effectively and I don't think you'd put him and Nunn together in the backcourt and expect big results. To me it looks like a team that will putter around near .500 in conference play and end up getting Groce fired.

Nebraska
What happens when you bring back almost everybody from a team that imploded? We will find out. Smith and Rivers (and Abraham) are the only graduating seniors. Will Terran Petteway come back? He might not want to but I can't imagine he has much draft stock. I suspect he comes back for some redemption next season. I also suspect the team bounces back. They drastically exceeded expectations in 2014 and drastically underperformed in 2015. My guess is 2016 sees them back around the middle of the pack. Petteway, Pitchford, and Shields still have some talent. They will also all be seniors next season. Miles isn't a bad coach. They will probably get themselves right onto the NCAA tournament bubble like they were last season.

Northwestern
Cobb and Sobo-cop (Sobolewski) are the graduation losses. They return some talent next season in Olah, McIntosh, Demps, and Law. While I don't think they have the depth to be a top half of the conference team, I'd be less surprised by a big jump by them than some other teams. They might actually have a chance at breaking their 0 for forever NCAA tournament streak next season. McIntosh, Demps, and Law could be one of the better perimeter trios in the conference and Olah is one of the better big men. If they do finally break through, will be interesting to see if Collins name comes up for some better job offers.

Minnesota
Bye-bye Walker, Elliason, Hollins, and Mathieu. That's basically the heart of their team from the last 2 seasons. They'll still have Joey King and Carlos Morris and Nate Mason, but the cupboard is getting a little more bare in Minneapolis. I wanted Pitino to succeed there but maybe it is just bad mojo from Minnesota firing Tubby Smith after taking them to the NCAA tournament.

Penn State
Newbill and Travis move on and they will be hard to replace. Pat Chambers actually has a recruiting class, though, with a couple top 100 kids. The future might actually be looking up in State College. Next season isn't going to be the one, though. Newbill was a beast and they are going to miss his scoring touch. Taylor and Thorpe figure to carry the load next season, but this team seems destined for another season at the bottom.

Rutgers
Mack and Jack were the only 2 solid players on their team this season and they are both gone. They were terrible this year and I'm assuming they will be even worse missing those 2 next season. Eddie Jordan isn't a good coach. He isn't even an average coach. He's just bad. The fact it's hard to recruit to Rutgers makes it impossible for a bad coach to have a chance. I'm assuming he'll be fired after next season. Hopefully they can pluck an up and comer from a mid major they will give them a fighting chance down the line. As it stands we will get to watch Bishop Daniels, Junior Etou, and DJ Foreman jack up bad shots next season and buff up the record of everybody else in the conference. Fun stat from this season: Rutgers ranks 299th or worse in FT shooting, 2 point shooting, and 3 point shooting.



My best guess at final conference standings

1) Michigan
2) Michigan State
3) Maryland
4) Wisconsin
5) Purdue
6) Indiana
7) Ohio State
8) Northwestern
9) Iowa
10) Nebraska
11) Illinois
12) Minnesota
13) Penn State
14) Rutgers

I'm pretty confident about the top 3 or 4 and I'm very confident about the bottom 3. 5-11 is a bit of a jumble to me.
 
Excellent summary. That's a good forecast. I might put Purdue a little higher as a contender for a conference championship. Thad Matta does an excellent job of bringing on his young players; OSU might surprise as well. Wisconsin, Iowa, and Maryland lose a ton of talent. All will be re-building next year, and breaking in new players.

Michigan Wolverines have a lot of talent and experience coming back, and several players who have over-achieved on the court (give the coach some credit here). The injuries were unfortunate, but they did give some players an opportunity to develop. If Wolverines avoid the injury bug, they will definitely contend. Not sure about MSU: as you say, they have some gaps inside and at PG. If Deyonta Davis steps up, Spartans could be very tough. Spartans will be athletic, but (without Dawson) not especially physical.

Agree also: there are not likely to be any national top 5 or top 10 teams in this group.
 
Re: Good post, where do you see UM if Caris leaves?*

If Caris leaves I think Michigan is still right in the thick of it at the top with MSU and maybe Maryland or Wisconsin (if Trimble or Dekker stay).
 
Great recap...personally I think with or without Caris, we will still be a favorite to finish in the Top 3 in the BIG. We have a lot of players coming back with a lot of experience. The question is really going to be how well these players progress in the off season. If even one of these players progress like Nik or Caris did a couple years ago, we will be unstoppable. Personally there are 4 players I would really like to see improve leaps and bounds:

Dawkins - he'll be even better but needs better ball-handling skills
Irvin - started to become much better as the season progressed but if he's on offensively, forget about - we beat anyone
Doyle - I love his motor, now if he can add some polish and a little more muscle, he could be a force
Chatman - really really stank, way too weak and inconsistent. He needs to improve the most

If we get these 4 guys to even improve slightly, I think we are going to be very very good next season. The irony is that if we had Caris & Walton we likely would have beaten IL (OT loss), Wisconsin (OT loss), MSU (OT loss), Northwestern (OT loss) - that would have meant a 19-11 record. Add the fact that we basically gave away the Villanova game this team was right there other then really bad losses to EMU & NJIT. Growing pains is what I call it. Next year should be exciting. I have to say though, we have put 5 players in the NBA and been really good the past couple years and yet we can't seem to land an recruits - not sure what's up with that?
 
Would like to see Doyle continue to develop and minimize the

number of pump fakes. I agree that on paper this team is good and has tremendous depth but not going to be a lot of minutes for guys like Chatman & MAAR. Hope the team chemistry is good.


By the way...the poster who bet Chatman would leave after next year should try and negotiate a smaller early payout. I think Chatman is the odd guy out in this JB system unless Chatman becomes someone I don't even recognize by the start of the season.

This team next year reminds me somewhat of last year...(Stauskas, GR3, LeVERT) with no real room for Irvin. This is going to be a problem for Chatman next year...who comes out? This is with or without LeVERT.


Reality Man
 
Re: Would like to see Doyle continue to develop and minimize the

Originally posted by Reality Man:
Hope the team chemistry is good.
That's one thing I will never doubt about a Beilein team. He puts a lot of work into recruiting the right kind of kids that value team success over individual success. And when a kid isn't all in with the rest? They tend to find their own way out of town (Smotrycz).
 
Here is my .02 cts...

I think Dawkins will improve but I think he has proven he is legit. Less ball handling improvement and more defensive improvement (rebounding & close outs, etc.) Looks to be a better GR3. I am not concerned with his game.


Doyle is the guy who needs to improve the most because Donnal looks limited and Chatman isn't as needed going forward because of Irvin playing the #4.

Doyle needs to also learn to stop faking too much. Go up strong. I think we will see it.

Irvin...the light bulb went on in the middle of the year. Realized he wasn't a very good 3 pt shooter and showed how talented he is that he could change his game mid season. Continue that development plus add a Robinson and/or LeVERT...look out.

Would love to see the talented Chatman improve but again I think he is the odd man out. Where does he play next year.

Wilson is going to be important too. I don't necessarily believe UM would have been that much better with LeVERT this year because it allowed Dawkins to develop. Just look at UM with LeVERT and the question would then have been whether Irvin would have been forced to develop his game since LeVERT would have been doing the heavy lifting.


This year could have been better...especially if GR3 or McGary would have been on the team. That being said...it allowed for some nice surprises which should help next year.




Reality Man
 
Re: Here is my .02 cts...

Originally posted by Reality Man:
I don't necessarily believe UM would have been that much better with LeVERT this year because it allowed Dawkins to develop.
That's one part I disagree with. Dawkins played 100% of his minutes at a forward position. LeVert plays 2 guard for us. Dawkins also was pretty much just a catch and shoot guy on offense so he wouldn't have been hurt by Caris dominating the ball on ball screens.

I do agree, however, that Irvin was forced to grow up without Caris around. So too was Abdur-Rahkman. Those both help our team going forward.
 
That is a fair point...but let's assume LeVERT was playing

this year...how much less time does Dawkins get on the court? I would surmise...1/2 as much time. Dawkins started playing (by necessity) since no one else could get the job done (looking at Chatman) and they moved Irvin.


I think if LeVERT stays healthy...JB thinks they have enough scoring punch and he feels he doesn't need to put a weaker defender on the floor. LeVERT forced changes that wouldn't have occurred naturally. Irvin was really the guy who was hurting this team earlier in the season and when he started playing better...the team started turning the corner since Albrecht needed some help. Dawkins playing better was a key too.


Reality Man


P.S. By the way...LeVERT getting hurt actually may be the key to this program going forward because showed that Irvin shouldn't be shooting as much long distance and got him to transition to a better style and allowed Dawkins to be what Irvin was supposed to be...if that makes any sense. :)
 
I agree next year should be much better for UM basketball where we should have a roster loaded with quality talent. I don't think anyone mentioned Duncan Robinson as a key player next year and the reports I've heard is that he's been very impressive in practice. Duncan is a legit 6'8" now and supposedly has been shooting the lights out at practice....and we all know how much Beilein likes players that can shoot the long ball.

I'm also hoping Wilson has been hitting the weight room hard during his redshirt year and in the off season because we need him to gain 20-30 lbs before the start of next season and still retain his athleticism.
 
While things look good for next year, I'm still concerned with (1) interior defense and (2) rebounding. We need someone like Doyle, Wilson or the German to step up next year. A stronger Chatman should improve rebounding as well. His rebounding skills have a nice upside.
 
I think MSU is going to be the class of the conference. Think MD and IU won't be too far behind. UM is in that tier with WISC, OSU, PU as far as I am concerned. Nebraska, Northwestern, Illinois.

Major recruits that can shift the outlook of the B1G:

Thon Maker : IU
Diamond Stone: WISC or MD
Jamal Murray: MSU or UM
Thomas Robinson: IU
Jaylen Brown: UM
Caleb Swanigan: MSU

The B1G should be the best conference in CBB next year.
 
It's highly likely Stone is a Badger at this point. The reliable insiders were inkling all along the only hold-up was that he needed to make a small academic tweak to get past tough UW admissions, and now they're inkling he's made it. At this point he's probably waiting for the right forum to announce, i.e.: the McDAA game.

Stone will be a game-changer for not only the Badgers but the Big Ten. He's projected to go 4th in next year's draft per Draft Express. And a lot of these projections were made before he enjoyed discernible improvements in his game, like getting svelter, running the floor better, beating opponents off the dribble, and hitting 3's. He has a unique, well-rounded skill-set for a big-bodied 7-footer. He compares to DeMarcus Cousins, only possesses a much better attitude. That might well make him the #1 frosh in cbb and #1 draftee before it's all said and done.

With a big 3 of Stone, Hayes, and Koenig alone; the Badgers project to be top 10-15 in the nation and a contender again for the conference crown.

Dekker comes back, which I think it's more likely he doesn't, although still very possible given his personality and some later 1st projections....and the Badgers project to be as good as anyone in the country. They'd have a combination of talent and experience that would be hard to match.

And I think a classic mistake in that write-up is the assumption, "what you see is what you get" in terms of the Badgers' relevant line-up. That's regularly been proven to not be true. There are guys you've never heard of who'll be assets to the Badgers' chances next year. They actually have 2-3 guys redshirting who would be rotation players now. Namely, Ethan Happ, who Jonathon Givony of Draft Express called a major steal from watching him in an international tourney last summer, and subsequently he's gotten a lot of hype from Badgers' practices. And aside from Stone, they have 4 other recruits. With Bo Ryan's talent evaluation record, you don't think 1-2 of them can help right away if he needs them too? Watch out for Khalil Iverson, who also looks to be another huge steal as a late bloomer who other major programs with schollies left were on toward the end.

Expect Bucky to again be really, really good next year.
 
Originally posted by guestavo:
I think MSU is going to be the class of the conference.
I just don't see how losing their best guard and their best forward is going to make them a better team. They'll still have Valentine and Forbes and add Eron Harris, but the 4/5 positions are relative black holes for them. I think that means they'll end up being borderline top 20/25 like they were this year.
 
Isn't that what people said last year? lol. Eron Harris, Deyonta Davis and Matt McQuaid will more than make up for the loss of Dawson and Trice. If they get a Caleb Swanigan or Jamal Murray, this won't even be a question.
 
Originally posted by guestavo:
Isn't that what people said last year? lol. Eron Harris, Deyonta Davis and Matt McQuaid will more than make up for the loss of Dawson and Trice. If they get a Caleb Swanigan or Jamal Murray, this won't even be a question.
LOL

Last year MSU was a top 5 caliber team when healthy. This year they are a top 20 caliber team when healthy. I'd say that's a sizeable fall off.

Not sure how Harris, Davis, and McQuaid will "more than make up for" the loss of Dawson and Trice.
 
Originally posted by blockm2:
Originally posted by guestavo:
Isn't that what people said last year? lol. Eron Harris, Deyonta Davis and Matt McQuaid will more than make up for the loss of Dawson and Trice. If they get a Caleb Swanigan or Jamal Murray, this won't even be a question.
LOL

Last year MSU was a top 5 caliber team when healthy. This year they are a top 20 caliber team when healthy. I'd say that's a sizeable fall off.

Not sure how Harris, Davis, and McQuaid will "more than make up for" the loss of Dawson and Trice.
And yet they are in the S16.

If you aren't sure how a 17 ppg scorer, a McDonalds All American and a top 100 sniper will more than make up for the loss of Dawson and Trice then you are hopeless.
 
Originally posted by guestavo:
And yet they are in the S16.

If you aren't sure how a 17 ppg scorer, a McDonalds All American and a top 100 sniper will more than make up for the loss of Dawson and Trice then you are hopeless.
You realize a 2 game sample size isn't exactly relevant for pegging performance over an entire season or predicting the future, right? I mean if you don't I'll just ignore every post you ever make again and it'll be simple.

Also, I suppose you don't seem to care that West Virginia got a lot better when Eron Harris left their team. Don't get me wrong, he's a good player, he's just not any better than Trice is right now. And your freshman McD's AA next season? Are you suggesting he will be better than your senior McD's AA was this season? "top 100 sniper"... WTH is that? Is that code for borderline 4 star recruit? Because based on Izzo's history, I wouldn't count on McQuaid contributing much next season.
 
lol this dude is delusional. Izzo will have a team that competes for the B1G once again.

Oh yeah, Diamond Stone just committed to Maryland. I am sure they are better than UM as it stands.
 
Word came out this week that Trimble is staying at Maryland. Besides Stone they also add GT transfer Robert Carter Jr.

Maryland is going to be VERY good next year. Preseason top 10.
 
If MSU were in any other Regional, they would be home preparing for next season. The East Region has turned out to be
a joke.
 
Originally posted by DetroitRockCity:
If MSU were in any other Regional, they would be home preparing for next season. The East Region has turned out to be
a joke.
They beat two top 10 Kenpom teams.
 
With the addition of Diamond Stone (and transfer Robert Carter), I'd bump Maryland up a smidge next season but still depends on if Trimble comes back or not. With him, they'd be conference favorites. Without, they drop down to maybe #2.

As for MSU beating 2 "top 10 kenpom teams", which 2 are those? Oklahoma wasn't a top 10 team at the time of the game (#11) or now (#13). Win over UVA was nice, though, but the Big 12 fell flat on it's face for the second year in a row.
 
Maryland is still Maryland....

Might be favorites on paper, but I'm taking Belein with talent and experience over Turgeon all day.
 
Re: Maryland is still Maryland....

Maryland will be top 10 preseason and probably deservedly so. If Michigan adds Moritz Wagner and Jaylen Brown, they too will be top 10 preseason. I'm not holding my breath on Brown, though.
 
Indiana adds top 25 PF/C Thomas Bryant and look great for top 10 C Thon Maker.


Maryland is also thought to lead for Damion Lee. A 5th year SR who averaged 21 ppg 6 rpg 2 apg 1.5 spg 38 % 3 pt 88 % FT and is 6'6'' 200 lbs.

If MSU gets on of Murray or Swanigan (Purdue has a shot here too), then we are 4th at best in the B1G next year without one of Levert, Brown or Murray.
 
The B1G is going to be tough next year. I think Michigan is going to be greatly improved but there are 3-4 other teams that will be very good. I'm hoping Beilein is able to land Wagner because he is a skilled multifaceted player, able to play a variety of positions. I'm also hoping Doyle hits the weight room hard during the off season because we need a junkyard dog to patrol the paint. I'm optimistic Wilson will take a big step forward going into next season. Beilein should have a loaded roster.
 
I'm think since my original look I'm bumping Maryland up to favorite since they've added Diamond Stone and Rasheed Sulaimon while getting Layman and Trimble back.

I'll stick with Michigan, Michigan State, Wisconsin, and Purdue in the next tier behind them in some order. I'm partial to Michigan coming out ahead of that group, but could see an argument for any of them.
 
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