Setting the record straight for Michael Spath

[EvanstonCat]

I'm not going to comment on what happened with Swenson overall, except to say that this is par for the course for Harbaugh. Northwestern recruits head to head (and as of late often loses) to Stanford, and so we've seen this thing happen before. Only, at Stanford, Harbaugh (and now Shaw) hid behind admissions and just wouldn't let a kid get admitted to slow play him. Harder for Harbaugh to do that at Michigan now.

My main reason for posting here is to call out Spath for his BS comment on Northwestern. Sure, we have offered 115 kids. But, what we have NEVER done is to pull a scholarship from a kid that was committed simply because we liked another kid better, much less one that stood by the program in it's darkest hour and committed two years ago. If 30 kids (actually it usually is much more) want to commit to NU for a class of 20, sure, we don't have spots for them all, and we do pull scholarship offers. Just never to kids that have verbally committed - with the following exceptions:

1) we told Darien Watkins (4 star recruit) that he no longer had a scholarship offer after he failed to meet a character requirement, which I won't go into to protect the young man's privacy but it had to do with something he shouldn't have done and was clearly spelled out to him in his offer letter. Watkins ended up signing with Wisconsin.

2) we will pull offers from committed kids who visit other schools. They are told explicitly though that when they commit, it's like a marriage. Sleep around, and we will file for divorce. Similarly, we consider our commitment to them sacrosanct, unlike Michigan.

3) there was one instance where we accepted a commitment from a kid and had to withdraw when he failed to meet academic requirements and a test score in particular. This was considered a lesson on something that should never again be repeated. An assistant that had been recruiting him was subsequently fired for the mishap - we lament his depature to this day because he was a great unit coach and recruiter, and he is doing a great job at his new school, while his replacement has been terrible

We have never pulled a scholarship from a committed kid because we liked another kid better. We have never pulled a scholarship (unlike Harbaugh) because a committed kid got injured. In fact, we don't even pull offers from kids who are injured (e.g. Kain Colter, Christian Jones) who haven't committed.

We tell kids who have outstanding offers at positions that have filled up that they need to look elsewhere because we no longer have room for them. We do not tell a kid that is committed that he is being recruited over, or that we are dropping him because a kid who is higher on our board wants to commit and needs his spot.

We may not recruit as well as Michigan, and perhaps we may not be as successful on the field as Michigan as a result. Harbaugh is a great coach when it comes to W's and L's and I'm sure you will find success on the field with him. But, if he is what a Michigan Man is all about, I wouldn't want anything to do with him and wouldn't want him at NU. I'm happier being a Northwestern Man and retaining my soul. I hope and believe we can win championships without stooping to such tactics, and will wait patiently for the day we replicate what we did from 1995-2000 in winning 3 B1G titles in 6 years without compromising our integrity. If it's a fool's dream, then so be it.

So, Teddy is right. We don't do it like Michigan does it at all.

 

[Reality Man]

I respect Northwestern. I am a diehard UM fan and want UM to win. That being said, as I told me friend, UM can win and win big. It doesn't need to accept a commitment (firm/no conditions) and then change it's mind later when a new and improved recruit comes into play.

Don't accept the commitment. I don't care if 'x' kid is playing around too. Lay out the law of the land to 'x' kid. Oregon has their policy. Hoke had his policy. Adapt. Mistakes are made. I don't think Harbaugh is some evil guy but going forward he should tell these kids who are 2nd tier guys in his mind or guys who might regress than things could change but they will give them 90 days.

I have no problem with the Harbaugh meritocracy routine. None...but I do have a problem with their isn't direct communication because you are dealing with a young person's life. Yes...this kid can go to Northwestern or Iowa which are great schools but maybe the kid has already made early arrangements.

Not giving the kid a clear pass. He looks to have been receiving mixed messages but adults should be more straightforward. Harbaugh should have told Swenson that he was a Hoke recruit and that we are going to evaluate all players going forward. If I was the coach and the kid didn't want to come to the camp then I would have cut the tie right there but they were using him as insurance.

By the way...I don't have a problem with the Falcon situation. UM needs to win football games but there is a line and the line was crossed with Swenson.

RM

 

[EvanstonCat]

Thanks for the injection of sanity.

For what it's worth, I agree with you on the Falcon situation. Many of my fellow NU fans chastised UM for that, and I defended UM. Harbaugh did at least arrange for him to get a non-athletic scholarship, so he did right by the kid. It was Falcon's choice to go somewhere else. That said, Fitzgerald would have handled it differently (would have just brought the kid into the class) and I would have had no problem with it if he thought the kid might make it back to form.

That's not at all what happened here with Swenson. Harbaugh wasn't inheriting Hoke's dregs, he re-recruited Swenson to stick with his commitment after he took over. Then almost a year later, he pulls a scholarship, well after his senior season was done. If as people claim this was about Swenson loafing or failing to perform his senior year (which I doubt, and in which case I agree with you - you never accept a commitment from a kid if you aren't going to stick with him) then you cut him in November when his senior year ends. You don't just give him vague messages (e.g. go visit other schools) while telling him at the same time to get ready to play for Michigan (in December). You don't finally get the message through to him that there is no scholarship for him in January two weeks from signing day (anyone suggesting that Swenson decommited on his own volition is in denial).

I do appreciate your post here. Tells me that not everyone in the Wolverine nation has lost it and pines to be something like dOSU or the SEC.

This said, NU and Fitz have a standing policy to not touch other recruits that have committed to other schools (like the SEC schools will do). I never agreed with that policy, but I for damn sure think we should definitely make an exception for Michigan given that a commitment to UM obviously means jack. And frankly, we have benefitted in the past from kids that Harbaugh pulled the same crap on at Stanford (e.g. Kain Colter).

 

[Reality Man]

There are quite a few UM fans who know right from wrong. I am not the only one. I know recruiting is a dirty business. Dealing with some of these kids is just got to be demoralizing. Some of these guys are seeking the attention, etc. Can't be easy dealing with parents. I understand the competitive nature of recruiting between schools.

Two wrongs don't make a right. UM has something valuable to offer. Harbaugh has something valuable to offer and maybe didn't quite understand the demand he can create at UM. Maybe he did and liked how he did it at Stanford.

It's just going to take a little tweak. Tell these guys that everyone is expected to improve and if things don't look like they are going in the right direction then they will make them aware that they should check out other schools. Your suggestion is perfect...the senior season is over...it shouldn't take to January to communicate a problem with the recruit.

In fact...maybe every one of these kids should have it relayed to them that 'we' will take a commitment contingent on your senior season performance and will reinforce that accepted commitment within 30 days of the end of the senior season. Not that hard.

I am happy Harbaugh is taking heat on his mistake which should hopefully lead to a better process going forward. I support coach Harbaugh and want him to succeed...just reign it in slightly. I love the camps. I love the potential spring practice in Florida. I love his quirkiness. I love Harbaugh and so appreciative he is at UM. I love his passion. I love his drive to be the ALABAMA of the Midwest when it comes to winning but don't go too far. It's not necessary. It really isn't. This is UM fergodsakes. Who said that?


RM

 

[EvanstonCat]

That's what makes this all so crazy. You are UM. You have the Big House. You have tradition. You even have great academics. You don't need to stoop to the level of dOSU and the SEC.

You can be really great without compromising your integrity.

I don't think it's just a tweak though. It's great that you stand by your coach, but I think he has a serious ethical problem if he thinks it's ok to screw around with kids like this. It's not the first time. He's done this plenty of times at Stanford, as some kids that ended up at NU can attest.

BTW, this is coming from someone who gave Harbaugh the benefit of the doubt when he was doing this crap at Stanford, and I got hammered by my fellow NU fans for defending him. I think he's a great X's and O's coach and he knows how to win. But, this - I cannot condone and I've come to see the light on him. I used to think Harbaugh would be the coach I would want at NU if Fitz wasn't there. No longer. I still think he's better than Fitz in many ways - maybe even better than Meyer or Saban. But, I'll stick with Fitz. Wouldn't want Harbaugh at NU even if Fitz was gone and he was available, simply because of the way he does things and treats kids with the recruiting.

 

[Sweet C]

1. Thanks for the injection of sanity.

For what it's worth, I agree with you on the Falcon situation. Many of my fellow NU fans chastised UM for that, and I defended UM. Harbaugh did at least arrange for him to get a non-athletic scholarship, so he did right by the kid. It was Falcon's choice to go somewhere else. That said, Fitzgerald would have handled it differently (would have just brought the kid into the class) and I would have had no problem with it if he thought the kid might make it back to form.

That's not at all what happened here with Swenson. Harbaugh wasn't inheriting Hoke's dregs, he re-recruited Swenson to stick with his commitment after he took over. Then almost a year later, he pulls a scholarship, well after his senior season was done. If as people claim this was about Swenson loafing or failing to perform his senior year (which I doubt, and in which case I agree with you - you never accept a commitment from a kid if you aren't going to stick with him) then you cut him in November when his senior year ends. You don't just give him vague messages (e.g. go visit other schools) while telling him at the same time to get ready to play for Michigan (in December). You don't finally get the message through to him that there is no scholarship for him in January two weeks from signing day (anyone suggesting that Swenson decommited on his own volition is in denial).

I do appreciate your post here. Tells me that not everyone in the Wolverine nation has lost it and pines to be something like dOSU or the SEC.

This said, NU and Fitz have a standing policy to not touch other recruits that have committed to other schools (like the SEC schools will do). I never agreed with that policy, but I for damn sure think we should definitely make an exception for Michigan given that a commitment to UM obviously means jack. And frankly, we have benefitted in the past from kids that Harbaugh pulled the same crap on at Stanford (e.g. Kain Colter).

 

[maelfan]

I agree with much of what you say accept for one thing. You are in denial, because we tend to follow and know most about what is in our own backyard.

You said now NW should try to poach UM recruits because a commitment to us obviously means nothing.

This happens at dozens of schools where players are knocking down the doors to get in. Not just UM. Mostly SEC, and some other sleazy schools? Maybe. But this happens yearly multiple times, will continue to happen, and 90% of the time goes unreported because a kid chooses to say they left on their own to hold on to some dignity.

Two more things.

Having said that, in this particular case, I'm sick at how Harbaugh handled this case. But overall he is as high integrity as they come.

Last, the Coulter situation. Fitzgerald and Harbaugh have apparently had a good relationship for a long time. If Saint Fitzgerald who you praise thought Harbsugh was such a sleaze, wouldn't the relationship not exist? Pat jumped and jumped fast at the chance to be in Ann Arbor last year as the premier guest speaker for Harbaugh. He never would have done that and Harbaugh never would have asked if a strong relationship didn't exist, long after Coulter came crying from Stsnford to NW.

Thanks for the injection of sanity.

For what it's worth, I agree with you on the Falcon situation. Many of my fellow NU fans chastised UM for that, and I defended UM. Harbaugh did at least arrange for him to get a non-athletic scholarship, so he did right by the kid. It was Falcon's choice to go somewhere else. That said, Fitzgerald would have handled it differently (would have just brought the kid into the class) and I would have had no problem with it if he thought the kid might make it back to form.

That's not at all what happened here with Swenson. Harbaugh wasn't inheriting Hoke's dregs, he re-recruited Swenson to stick with his commitment after he took over. Then almost a year later, he pulls a scholarship, well after his senior season was done. If as people claim this was about Swenson loafing or failing to perform his senior year (which I doubt, and in which case I agree with you - you never accept a commitment from a kid if you aren't going to stick with him) then you cut him in November when his senior year ends. You don't just give him vague messages (e.g. go visit other schools) while telling him at the same time to get ready to play for Michigan (in December). You don't finally get the message through to him that there is no scholarship for him in January two weeks from signing day (anyone suggesting that Swenson decommited on his own volition is in denial).

I do appreciate your post here. Tells me that not everyone in the Wolverine nation has lost it and pines to be something like dOSU or the SEC.

This said, NU and Fitz have a standing policy to not touch other recruits that have committed to other schools (like the SEC schools will do). I never agreed with that policy, but I for damn sure think we should definitely make an exception for Michigan given that a commitment to UM obviously means jack. And frankly, we have benefitted in the past from kids that Harbaugh pulled the same crap on at Stanford (e.g. Kain Colter).

 

[Sweet C]

1. Then why don't you wildcats offer Swenson a spot? You have pulled offers only you say for different reasons how do I know? Like you I don't have all the facts. Go Blue!

 

[maelfan]

You say we don't need to stoop to the level of SEC to win big? Maybe, maybe not.

But apparently big name programs like UM, such as Bama, OSU, other top SEC need to be in the mud to win. So the decision gets a little harder. Go 8-4 every year while OSU and Bama share the crown or join them?

UM isn't cheating and won't like OSU. And again, I think the Swenson incident stinks. But if you want to win with the big boys sometimes you have to play by their rules. Ask Cosch K, maybe one of the biggest rule benders the NCAA has ever seen.

That's what makes this all so crazy. You are UM. You have the Big House. You have tradition. You even have great academics. You don't need to stoop to the level of dOSU and the SEC.

You can be really great without compromising your integrity.

I don't think it's just a tweak though. It's great that you stand by your coach, but I think he has a serious ethical problem if he thinks it's ok to screw around with kids like this. It's not the first time. He's done this plenty of times at Stanford, as some kids that ended up at NU can attest.

BTW, this is coming from someone who gave Harbaugh the benefit of the doubt when he was doing this crap at Stanford, and I got hammered by my fellow NU fans for defending him. I think he's a great X's and O's coach and he knows how to win. But, this - I cannot condone and I've come to see the light on him. I used to think Harbaugh would be the coach I would want at NU if Fitz wasn't there. No longer. I still think he's better than Fitz in many ways - maybe even better than Meyer or Saban. But, I'll stick with Fitz. Wouldn't want Harbaugh at NU even if Fitz was gone and he was available, simply because of the way he does things and treats kids with the recruiting.

 

[St. Joe Blue 3]

Maize 'N View: Two Sides To Every Story
Michael Spath | Editor
On Thursday, following the decommitment of four-star offensive tackle Erik Swenson, Chicago Tribune columnist Teddy Greenstein called Jim Harbaugh “greedy. He's Nixonian. He is the Bill Belichick of the college game.”

Is he right? Or is this a case of passing judgment without knowing the whole truth?

If you believe the Swenson camp then Harbaugh is all those things. He’s not the goofy, fun-loving guy that makes headlines by volunteering to sleep over a recruit’s house or is willing to play DJ Khaled to impress another recruit. He’s a liar. He’s unethical, and he’s willing to destroy a young man’s future simply to bring in a better player.

That’s the narrative anyway that so many media outlets have been willing to run with this week, which is surprising because in Journalism 101 you’re immediately taught there is another side to the story and that your story cannot (or should not) run until you’ve told both sides.

We tried to do that on Thursday, presenting both arguments (admittedly behind a pay wall to help drive subscriptions) based on conversations we’ve had with folks on both sides of this.

Now, Michigan cannot comment publicly on recruits until National Signing Day and even then, Harbaugh almost certainly will not talk about the Downers Grove South product specifically (he couldn't even if he wanted to until Swenson signs a LOI with someone).

However, at that time Harbaugh could address his recruiting strategy, the notion that he recruits “over a commitment” or that he continued to perpetuate a fallacy – that Swenson had an opportunity to attend U-M when Harbaugh knew deep down they always planned to pull his scholarship.

In fact, if a reporter attended that press conference and got his question(s) in and wasn’t satisfied with the answers, at that point, he could write a column claiming “ethics are no obstacle to Michigan’s Jim Harbaugh.”

Jim Harbaugh's ethics have been called into question.
USA TODAY Sports Images
As a journalist, it concerns me writing a column when your source is a jilted 18-year old kid with raw emotions that may just be telling his version of the story.

I say that because two weeks ago, when we began dropping major hints in our Inside The Fort columns, we were told that Swenson was no longer a Michigan commitment. We have also been told by multiple sources (though admittedly one of those sources on the Michigan side) that the Swensons were told back in November that he should be looking around because he may not have a committable offer.

We were also told by a source out of Downers Grove that the Michigan coaches asked Swenson to camp at U-M over the summer so the staff could properly evaluate him (he refused) and we were told that it was understood that Swenson’s senior year would serve as an evaluation period because this coaching staff had never seen him in-person and wanted to know if he was a good fit for the program.

Greenstein notes that coaches like Harbaugh, with a win-at-all-cost mentality, “want to be able to drop committed players they sour on.”

That’s actually true, but it’s more nuanced than that. When we spoke to our in-house expert, former Michigan All-Big Ten offensive lineman Doug Skene, he told us a story of a player that was supposed to join the 1988 freshman class but that dogged it his senior year of high school. What did Bo Schembechler do? He didn’t sign the young man.

In other words, this has been going on for decades. The difference now is the prevalence of social media. Some of that is good – it gives each recruit more power – but some of it is bad when reputable newspapers pick up the story and run with it without presenting the other side.

As we always do with Michigan recruits, we talk to opposing coaches for a feature and when we spoke to Swenson’s opponents we were told off the record that the coaches were surprised by how less aggressive the 6-5, 300-pounder was and how their defensive linemen no longer feared playing him.

We’ve been told the same from our sources in Downers Grove, who said it was a major frustration for the coaches this year that the kid played not to get hurt instead of playing to show that he was dominant and the best player in the state.

So if you’re Harbaugh and Co., and the young man has rejected your desire for him to come camp and then you watch him this fall and he’s not performing the way you want in a offensive lineman you’re trying to build a program around, do you honor a scholarship that you didn’t offer in the first place?

Some critics will say absolutely. And some will say that Harbaugh extended a written offer to Swenson in September (which the young man tweeted out as proof) so you have to honor that. There’s certainly a case to be made that if the coaching staff was uncertain about Swenson they never should have issued that offer.

It’s also an argument that they were still evaluating Swenson when the offer was extended and they reserve the right to decide if it’s a “committable” offer or not.

Erik Swenson
Rivals.com
Someone could call that hypocrisy but then have they not been paying attention to college football for the past decade? Most schools extend 150 offers in a single year, knowing they can accept only 20-25.

Northwestern, which Greenstein uses in his story to show how a program does it the right way, has offered 115 recruits in 2016. Is Pat Fitzgerald not also playing the game? What happens if 30 of them wanted to commit but Northwestern doesn’t have a spot for him? Doesn’t Fitzgerald essentially pull that kid’s scholarship offer?

In fact, he has to or he will be forced to oversign.

On Thursday, Kiante Enis and Antwaine Richardson also decommitted from Michigan because they no longer held a committable offer. And both Enis and Richardson were Harbaugh-offered recruits.

So why didn’t they react with the same venom? According to our source, they were also given the heads up weeks ago that this was coming, and were encouraged to take other visits and look at other schools.

I don’t disagree that this whole thing is ugly, and I can completely understand the Swensons or Richardsons or Enis feeling like they got a raw deal, their dream school coming through with an offer only to take it away.

No one can say they know the inner workings of the Michigan staff and how they handle the conversations that take place with each commit.

One would hope they tell recruits that the evaluation process is ongoing and that both sides have to keep up their end of the bargain. That if the young man does everything the coaches ask of him, and continues to push himself to develop on the field, in the classroom and in the community the way that a school and program like Michigan expects, that their commitment will be honored.

But here’s the thing. No one objects when a school drops a recruit because he’s not a good citizen in his community or if he fails to perform in the classroom, so why is it thus completely unacceptable to drop a prospect if he doesn’t meet expectations on the football field too?

I don’t know. I don’t pretend I have all the answers.

The only thing I do know is there are two sides to every story.

 

[BlueKachi]

It's not just Swenson -- how about Weaver, Richardson, Ennis etc?

Harbaugh used them as safety picks while he hunted for bigger game. Welcome to Alabama, felllas.

 

[BDP-RSB]

I respect Northwestern. I am a diehard UM fan and want UM to win. That being said, as I told me friend, UM can win and win big. It doesn't need to accept a commitment (firm/no conditions) and then change it's mind later when a new and improved recruit comes into play.

Don't accept the commitment. I don't care if 'x' kid is playing around too. Lay out the law of the land to 'x' kid. Oregon has their policy. Hoke had his policy. Adapt. Mistakes are made. I don't think Harbaugh is some evil guy but going forward he should tell these kids who are 2nd tier guys in his mind or guys who might regress than things could change but they will give them 90 days.

I have no problem with the Harbaugh meritocracy routine. None...but I do have a problem with their isn't direct communication because you are dealing with a young person's life. Yes...this kid can go to Northwestern or Iowa which are great schools but maybe the kid has already made early arrangements.

Not giving the kid a clear pass. He looks to have been receiving mixed messages but adults should be more straightforward. Harbaugh should have told Swenson that he was a Hoke recruit and that we are going to evaluate all players going forward. If I was the coach and the kid didn't want to come to the camp then I would have cut the tie right there but they were using him as insurance.

By the way...I don't have a problem with the Falcon situation. UM needs to win football games but there is a line and the line was crossed with Swenson.

RM

That and harbaugh told Falcon he could go to Michigan just not play football and the degree is the most important thing here right?

 

[amayznblue]

"But, what we have NEVER done is to pull a scholarship from a kid that was committed simply because we liked another kid better, "

Um....until you have BOTH sides to this story, you're just speaking out of ignorance. I'm not defending Harbaugh and neither was Spath in his article....his very point was for everyone to exercise caution until every side of the story came out. If you believe Fitz is squeaky clean, you'll be setting yourself up for some major disappointment. Recruiting is just an ugly game right now and will be until the ncaa decides to control it.

 

[candid]

I'm not going to comment on what happened with Swenson overall, except to say that this is par for the course for Harbaugh. Northwestern recruits head to head (and as of late often loses) to Stanford, and so we've seen this thing happen before. Only, at Stanford, Harbaugh (and now Shaw) hid behind admissions and just wouldn't let a kid get admitted to slow play him. Harder for Harbaugh to do that at Michigan now.

My main reason for posting here is to call out Spath for his BS comment on Northwestern. Sure, we have offered 115 kids. But, what we have NEVER done is to pull a scholarship from a kid that was committed simply because we liked another kid better, much less one that stood by the program in it's darkest hour and committed two years ago. If 30 kids (actually it usually is much more) want to commit to NU for a class of 20, sure, we don't have spots for them all, and we do pull scholarship offers. Just never to kids that have verbally committed - with the following exceptions:

1) we told Darien Watkins (4 star recruit) that he no longer had a scholarship offer after he failed to meet a character requirement, which I won't go into to protect the young man's privacy but it had to do with something he shouldn't have done and was clearly spelled out to him in his offer letter. Watkins ended up signing with Wisconsin.

2) we will pull offers from committed kids who visit other schools. They are told explicitly though that when they commit, it's like a marriage. Sleep around, and we will file for divorce. Similarly, we consider our commitment to them sacrosanct, unlike Michigan.

3) there was one instance where we accepted a commitment from a kid and had to withdraw when he failed to meet academic requirements and a test score in particular. This was considered a lesson on something that should never again be repeated. An assistant that had been recruiting him was subsequently fired for the mishap - we lament his depature to this day because he was a great unit coach and recruiter, and he is doing a great job at his new school, while his replacement has been terrible

We have never pulled a scholarship from a committed kid because we liked another kid better. We have never pulled a scholarship (unlike Harbaugh) because a committed kid got injured. In fact, we don't even pull offers from kids who are injured (e.g. Kain Colter, Christian Jones) who haven't committed.

We tell kids who have outstanding offers at positions that have filled up that they need to look elsewhere because we no longer have room for them. We do not tell a kid that is committed that he is being recruited over, or that we are dropping him because a kid who is higher on our board wants to commit and needs his spot.

We may not recruit as well as Michigan, and perhaps we may not be as successful on the field as Michigan as a result. Harbaugh is a great coach when it comes to W's and L's and I'm sure you will find success on the field with him. But, if he is what a Michigan Man is all about, I wouldn't want anything to do with him and wouldn't want him at NU. I'm happier being a Northwestern Man and retaining my soul. I hope and believe we can win championships without stooping to such tactics, and will wait patiently for the day we replicate what we did from 1995-2000 in winning 3 B1G titles in 6 years without compromising our integrity. If it's a fool's dream, then so be it.

So, Teddy is right. We don't do it like Michigan does it at all.

I'm not going to comment on what happened with Swenson overall, except to say that this is par for the course for Harbaugh. Northwestern recruits head to head (and as of late often loses) to Stanford, and so we've seen this thing happen before. Only, at Stanford, Harbaugh (and now Shaw) hid behind admissions and just wouldn't let a kid get admitted to slow play him. Harder for Harbaugh to do that at Michigan now.

My main reason for posting here is to call out Spath for his BS comment on Northwestern. Sure, we have offered 115 kids. But, what we have NEVER done is to pull a scholarship from a kid that was committed simply because we liked another kid better, much less one that stood by the program in it's darkest hour and committed two years ago. If 30 kids (actually it usually is much more) want to commit to NU for a class of 20, sure, we don't have spots for them all, and we do pull scholarship offers. Just never to kids that have verbally committed - with the following exceptions:

1) we told Darien Watkins (4 star recruit) that he no longer had a scholarship offer after he failed to meet a character requirement, which I won't go into to protect the young man's privacy but it had to do with something he shouldn't have done and was clearly spelled out to him in his offer letter. Watkins ended up signing with Wisconsin.

2) we will pull offers from committed kids who visit other schools. They are told explicitly though that when they commit, it's like a marriage. Sleep around, and we will file for divorce. Similarly, we consider our commitment to them sacrosanct, unlike Michigan.

3) there was one instance where we accepted a commitment from a kid and had to withdraw when he failed to meet academic requirements and a test score in particular. This was considered a lesson on something that should never again be repeated. An assistant that had been recruiting him was subsequently fired for the mishap - we lament his depature to this day because he was a great unit coach and recruiter, and he is doing a great job at his new school, while his replacement has been terrible

We have never pulled a scholarship from a committed kid because we liked another kid better. We have never pulled a scholarship (unlike Harbaugh) because a committed kid got injured. In fact, we don't even pull offers from kids who are injured (e.g. Kain Colter, Christian Jones) who haven't committed.

We tell kids who have outstanding offers at positions that have filled up that they need to look elsewhere because we no longer have room for them. We do not tell a kid that is committed that he is being recruited over, or that we are dropping him because a kid who is higher on our board wants to commit and needs his spot.

We may not recruit as well as Michigan, and perhaps we may not be as successful on the field as Michigan as a result. Harbaugh is a great coach when it comes to W's and L's and I'm sure you will find success on the field with him. But, if he is what a Michigan Man is all about, I wouldn't want anything to do with him and wouldn't want him at NU. I'm happier being a Northwestern Man and retaining my soul. I hope and believe we can win championships without stooping to such tactics, and will wait patiently for the day we replicate what we did from 1995-2000 in winning 3 B1G titles in 6 years without compromising our integrity. If it's a fool's dream, then so be it.

So, Teddy is right. We don't do it like Michigan does it at all.

Again, as high as the nw rep is for academics, I find it hard to understand why anyone would want to make some of your statements wo knowing all the facts. A good journalist, getting rare to find) would be careful to take a stand where the one of the opinions and or facts can't be made public because of restrictions. I would think better of any nw student, grad and most fans.

 

[TcFlint1]

I do not lke the appearance of what happened with Swenson, but Spath's rebuttal to EvanstonCat and Greenstien was appropriate, right on, and well thought-out. It is unprofessional journaism to make comments as fact, when only getting one side of the story. Well done Mr Spath.

 

[pistol55]

I'm not going to comment on what happened with Swenson overall, except to say that this is par for the course for Harbaugh. Northwestern recruits head to head (and as of late often loses) to Stanford, and so we've seen this thing happen before. Only, at Stanford, Harbaugh (and now Shaw) hid behind admissions and just wouldn't let a kid get admitted to slow play him. Harder for Harbaugh to do that at Michigan now.

My main reason for posting here is to call out Spath for his BS comment on Northwestern. Sure, we have offered 115 kids. But, what we have NEVER done is to pull a scholarship from a kid that was committed simply because we liked another kid better, much less one that stood by the program in it's darkest hour and committed two years ago. If 30 kids (actually it usually is much more) want to commit to NU for a class of 20, sure, we don't have spots for them all, and we do pull scholarship offers. Just never to kids that have verbally committed - with the following exceptions:

1) we told Darien Watkins (4 star recruit) that he no longer had a scholarship offer after he failed to meet a character requirement, which I won't go into to protect the young man's privacy but it had to do with something he shouldn't have done and was clearly spelled out to him in his offer letter. Watkins ended up signing with Wisconsin.

2) we will pull offers from committed kids who visit other schools. They are told explicitly though that when they commit, it's like a marriage. Sleep around, and we will file for divorce. Similarly, we consider our commitment to them sacrosanct, unlike Michigan.

3) there was one instance where we accepted a commitment from a kid and had to withdraw when he failed to meet academic requirements and a test score in particular. This was considered a lesson on something that should never again be repeated. An assistant that had been recruiting him was subsequently fired for the mishap - we lament his depature to this day because he was a great unit coach and recruiter, and he is doing a great job at his new school, while his replacement has been terrible

We have never pulled a scholarship from a committed kid because we liked another kid better. We have never pulled a scholarship (unlike Harbaugh) because a committed kid got injured. In fact, we don't even pull offers from kids who are injured (e.g. Kain Colter, Christian Jones) who haven't committed.

We tell kids who have outstanding offers at positions that have filled up that they need to look elsewhere because we no longer have room for them. We do not tell a kid that is committed that he is being recruited over, or that we are dropping him because a kid who is higher on our board wants to commit and needs his spot.

We may not recruit as well as Michigan, and perhaps we may not be as successful on the field as Michigan as a result. Harbaugh is a great coach when it comes to W's and L's and I'm sure you will find success on the field with him. But, if he is what a Michigan Man is all about, I wouldn't want anything to do with him and wouldn't want him at NU. I'm happier being a Northwestern Man and retaining my soul. I hope and believe we can win championships without stooping to such tactics, and will wait patiently for the day we replicate what we did from 1995-2000 in winning 3 B1G titles in 6 years without compromising our integrity. If it's a fool's dream, then so be it.

So, Teddy is right. We don't do it like Michigan does it at all.

how stupid. you are not connected enough to know how nw "does it" plus what was your backup plan if all 115 offers accepted the scholarship? im sorry i forgot your busy "retaining your soul". what a pompous ass.

 

[rojo36]

That's what makes this all so crazy. You are UM. You have the Big House. You have tradition. You even have great academics. You don't need to stoop to the level of dOSU and the SEC.

You can be really great without compromising your integrity.

I don't think it's just a tweak though. It's great that you stand by your coach, but I think he has a serious ethical problem if he thinks it's ok to screw around with kids like this. It's not the first time. He's done this plenty of times at Stanford, as some kids that ended up at NU can attest.

BTW, this is coming from someone who gave Harbaugh the benefit of the doubt when he was doing this crap at Stanford, and I got hammered by my fellow NU fans for defending him. I think he's a great X's and O's coach and he knows how to win. But, this - I cannot condone and I've come to see the light on him. I used to think Harbaugh would be the coach I would want at NU if Fitz wasn't there. No longer. I still think he's better than Fitz in many ways - maybe even better than Meyer or Saban. But, I'll stick with Fitz. Wouldn't want Harbaugh at NU even if Fitz was gone and he was available, simply because of the way he does things and treats kids with the recruiting.

Oh, UM "even" has great academics, according to you. Why put in the "even" ???

 

[PharmD Blue]

I'm not going to comment on what happened with Swenson overall, except to say that this is par for the course for Harbaugh. Northwestern recruits head to head (and as of late often loses) to Stanford, and so we've seen this thing happen before. Only, at Stanford, Harbaugh (and now Shaw) hid behind admissions and just wouldn't let a kid get admitted to slow play him. Harder for Harbaugh to do that at Michigan now.

My main reason for posting here is to call out Spath for his BS comment on Northwestern. Sure, we have offered 115 kids. But, what we have NEVER done is to pull a scholarship from a kid that was committed simply because we liked another kid better, much less one that stood by the program in it's darkest hour and committed two years ago. If 30 kids (actually it usually is much more) want to commit to NU for a class of 20, sure, we don't have spots for them all, and we do pull scholarship offers. Just never to kids that have verbally committed - with the following exceptions:

1) we told Darien Watkins (4 star recruit) that he no longer had a scholarship offer after he failed to meet a character requirement, which I won't go into to protect the young man's privacy but it had to do with something he shouldn't have done and was clearly spelled out to him in his offer letter. Watkins ended up signing with Wisconsin.

2) we will pull offers from committed kids who visit other schools. They are told explicitly though that when they commit, it's like a marriage. Sleep around, and we will file for divorce. Similarly, we consider our commitment to them sacrosanct, unlike Michigan.

3) there was one instance where we accepted a commitment from a kid and had to withdraw when he failed to meet academic requirements and a test score in particular. This was considered a lesson on something that should never again be repeated. An assistant that had been recruiting him was subsequently fired for the mishap - we lament his depature to this day because he was a great unit coach and recruiter, and he is doing a great job at his new school, while his replacement has been terrible

We have never pulled a scholarship from a committed kid because we liked another kid better. We have never pulled a scholarship (unlike Harbaugh) because a committed kid got injured. In fact, we don't even pull offers from kids who are injured (e.g. Kain Colter, Christian Jones) who haven't committed.

We tell kids who have outstanding offers at positions that have filled up that they need to look elsewhere because we no longer have room for them. We do not tell a kid that is committed that he is being recruited over, or that we are dropping him because a kid who is higher on our board wants to commit and needs his spot.

We may not recruit as well as Michigan, and perhaps we may not be as successful on the field as Michigan as a result. Harbaugh is a great coach when it comes to W's and L's and I'm sure you will find success on the field with him. But, if he is what a Michigan Man is all about, I wouldn't want anything to do with him and wouldn't want him at NU. I'm happier being a Northwestern Man and retaining my soul. I hope and believe we can win championships without stooping to such tactics, and will wait patiently for the day we replicate what we did from 1995-2000 in winning 3 B1G titles in 6 years without compromising our integrity. If it's a fool's dream, then so be it.

So, Teddy is right. We don't do it like Michigan does it at all.

Thanks for posting without knowing the facts from BOTH sides. I'm glad your an Evanston man. It's cute. Being an Evanston man means getting your a$$ kicked every year? How did the bowl game work for you? Oh, and yeah...38-0. But thanks for sharing your opinions without knowing the whole story

 

[pistol55]

It's not just Swenson -- how about Weaver, Richardson, Ennis etc?

Harbaugh used them as safety picks while he hunted for bigger game. Welcome to Alabama, felllas.

i see, you are another one of those "insiders" that seem to know everything about everything.

 

[BlueKachi]

Where there is smoke there is fire.

 

[jbannan]

I thought that sex and comedy were the things where timing was important. It appears that it also applies to recruiting. I do not have a dog in the above fight but there are several questions I have about the situation. If Swenson was told in the fall to look at other schools, why was he invited to the Ohio State game? If he was on the outs, why was he scheduled for an Official Visit on Jan. 15th? Why was he called prior to the 15th and told to reschedule the visit for the 22nd? Then he was called after the 15th and told he was not to visit and would not be getting a scholarship. I find the timing the issue not a he said vs. he said that appears to muddy the water.

 

[pistol55]

Where there is smoke there is fire.

not really. sometimes no matter how hard you try all you get is a little smoke.. just not enough there to get a fire going.

 

[MRCat95]

not really. sometimes no matter how hard you try all you get is a little smoke.. just not enough there to get a fire going.

That is what Harbaugh is counting on.

 

[pistol55]

That is what Harbaugh is counting on.

a

 

[detroitjohn]

I'm not going to comment on what happened with Swenson overall, except to say that this is par for the course for Harbaugh. Northwestern recruits head to head (and as of late often loses) to Stanford, and so we've seen this thing happen before. Only, at Stanford, Harbaugh (and now Shaw) hid behind admissions and just wouldn't let a kid get admitted to slow play him. Harder for Harbaugh to do that at Michigan now.

My main reason for posting here is to call out Spath for his BS comment on Northwestern. Sure, we have offered 115 kids. But, what we have NEVER done is to pull a scholarship from a kid that was committed simply because we liked another kid better, much less one that stood by the program in it's darkest hour and committed two years ago. If 30 kids (actually it usually is much more) want to commit to NU for a class of 20, sure, we don't have spots for them all, and we do pull scholarship offers. Just never to kids that have verbally committed - with the following exceptions:

1) we told Darien Watkins (4 star recruit) that he no longer had a scholarship offer after he failed to meet a character requirement, which I won't go into to protect the young man's privacy but it had to do with something he shouldn't have done and was clearly spelled out to him in his offer letter. Watkins ended up signing with Wisconsin.

2) we will pull offers from committed kids who visit other schools. They are told explicitly though that when they commit, it's like a marriage. Sleep around, and we will file for divorce. Similarly, we consider our commitment to them sacrosanct, unlike Michigan.

3) there was one instance where we accepted a commitment from a kid and had to withdraw when he failed to meet academic requirements and a test score in particular. This was considered a lesson on something that should never again be repeated. An assistant that had been recruiting him was subsequently fired for the mishap - we lament his depature to this day because he was a great unit coach and recruiter, and he is doing a great job at his new school, while his replacement has been terrible

We have never pulled a scholarship from a committed kid because we liked another kid better. We have never pulled a scholarship (unlike Harbaugh) because a committed kid got injured. In fact, we don't even pull offers from kids who are injured (e.g. Kain Colter, Christian Jones) who haven't committed.

We tell kids who have outstanding offers at positions that have filled up that they need to look elsewhere because we no longer have room for them. We do not tell a kid that is committed that he is being recruited over, or that we are dropping him because a kid who is higher on our board wants to commit and needs his spot.

We may not recruit as well as Michigan, and perhaps we may not be as successful on the field as Michigan as a result. Harbaugh is a great coach when it comes to W's and L's and I'm sure you will find success on the field with him. But, if he is what a Michigan Man is all about, I wouldn't want anything to do with him and wouldn't want him at NU. I'm happier being a Northwestern Man and retaining my soul. I hope and believe we can win championships without stooping to such tactics, and will wait patiently for the day we replicate what we did from 1995-2000 in winning 3 B1G titles in 6 years without compromising our integrity. If it's a fool's dream, then so be it.

So, Teddy is right. We don't do it like Michigan does it at all.

Let's see, who was your coach during that 95-2000 run, yeah, Gary Barnett, now there's a standard-bearer of moral uprightness...I'm sure he only started to do things the wrong way with recruiting and treatment of players after he left the Victorian confines of Northwestern.

 

[Reality Man]

I thought that sex and comedy were the things where timing was important. It appears that it also applies to recruiting. I do not have a dog in the above fight but there are several questions I have about the situation. If Swenson was told in the fall to look at other schools, why was he invited to the Ohio State game? If he was on the outs, why was he scheduled for an Official Visit on Jan. 15th? Why was he called prior to the 15th and told to reschedule the visit for the 22nd? Then he was called after the 15th and told he was not to visit and would not be getting a scholarship. I find the timing the issue not a he said vs. he said that appears to muddy the water.

Because UM was using him as a form of insurance. I was listening to Skene who made some great points about this stuff going on for awhile. He tells a story about a fellow teammate/recruit back in his day. Now with social media and the 'agendas' it is easier to unleash this stuff for public consumption.

Whether it happened 20 years ago or 1 week ago it's a policy that needs to be revised. Just tell these kids there are no promises and things can change until the ink is dry.


RM

 

[EvanstonCat]

how stupid. you are not connected enough to know how nw "does it" plus what was your backup plan if all 115 offers accepted the scholarship? im sorry i forgot your busy "retaining your soul". what a pompous ass.

Because it wouldn't be possible. We withdraw offers as the class fills up. If there are 5 OL offers out and we have room in our class for 4, we tell the 5th one he no longer has an offer when the 4th one commits. Even if that 5th one is a 5 star recruit.

We aren't like Michigan where if you commit, you're good to go... UNLESS some kid that is still on the board that UM likes better wants to take your spot.

There is nothing wrong with withdrawing offers. Especially when spots are taken and there isn't any room in the class. What is unethical is withdrawing offers for kids who have committed to you, because you like other kids who didn't commit yet, better. Especially when they committed to you two years ago, stuck with you during your darkest days, and especially when you drop them three weeks before signing day when many classes have filled up (and given that many other schools, unlike Michigan, actually stick with their committed kids). If you can't see the difference, I can't help you.

If this is what being a Michigan Man is all about, then that's all I need to know.

 

[maelfan]

Do you remember the NW point shaving scandals and NW football players betting on their own games years ago? Get back to that in a minute.

Evanston Cat, give us the insider stats on how many D 1 schools this year have pushed a committed kid in another direction like Michigan just did. You say " many other schools" stick with all their committed kids meaning some unknown grouping of other schools don't. Who else is in that group this year with Michgan? Do you know? Because EVERY single story like this is reported, right?

Just like .... Many schools keep their basketball players from point shaving and football players from betting on their own games, right?

Not every story is told.i still do t think what UM did was tight but you, Greenstein's and others creating a narrative about Harbaugh and UM in general because of one, in my opinion bad decision, albeit one with a legitimate second side to the story is simply piling on for clicks in the case of Greenstein and jealousy in your case.

Good news is when UM's very successful season ends next year, nobody will have been talking about this for months.

 

[EvanstonCat]

Do you remember the NW point shaving scandals and NW football players betting on their own games years ago? Get back to that in a minute.

Evanston Cat, give us the insider stats on how many D 1 schools this year have pushed a committed kid in another direction like Michigan just did. You say " many other schools" stick with all their committed kids meaning some unknown grouping of other schools don't. Who else is in that group this year with Michgan? Do you know? Because EVERY single story like this is reported, right?

Just like .... Many schools keep their basketball players from point shaving and football players from betting on their own games, right?

Not every story is told.i still do t think what UM did was tight but you, Greenstein's and others creating a narrative about Harbaugh and UM in general because of one, in my opinion bad decision, albeit one with a legitimate second side to the story is simply piling on for clicks in the case of Greenstein and jealousy in your case.

Good news is when UM's very successful season ends next year, nobody will have been talking about this for months.

Yeah, the point shaving scandals and incidents, funny you should mention that, since it actually exactly demonstrates why NU is different from other schools. Those were actions taken by members of our football and basketball teams, to our great disappointment and shame. Those kids were immediately thrown off the teams, NU informed the authorities - including the FBI, and in fact Northwestern was lauded for it's handling of the situation as a model for how a schools should be addressing such situations.

Unlike other schools, where criminal or unethical behaviors are not only tolerated, but also covered up. E.g Ed Martin and the cash cakes, and what happens at Ohio State and the SEC schools all the time.

In this case, there was no criminal behavior, but there was unethical behavior, in my book. And it wasn't individual players doing it outside the boundaries of the institution. It was a head coach, who represents the program and the university. If you can't see the difference, I don't know what to tell you.

If you think no one will be talking about the Swenson situation, you're in fantasy land. Harbaugh has a pattern of such tactics, and the next time it happens, the noise will only amplify. I don't believe the claims that Swenson was taken care of with an academic scholarship, unless that is substantiated.

 

[TcFlint1]

EvanstonCat still appears to be butt-hurt over an Illinois kid "REFUSING" his new coaching staffs request to attend summer camp so they could further evaluate him. The kid committed 3 years ago to a different coach. I think this was a logical request by Harbaugh and staff and cannot beleive why those from the Northwestern Forum are continuing to ONLY tell one side of the story.

 

[BlueKachi]

Yeah, the point shaving scandals and incidents, funny you should mention that, since it actually exactly demonstrates why NU is different from other schools. Those were actions taken by members of our football and basketball teams, to our great disappointment and shame. Those kids were immediately thrown off the teams, NU informed the authorities - including the FBI, and in fact Northwestern was lauded for it's handling of the situation as a model for how a schools should be addressing such situations.

Unlike other schools, where criminal or unethical behaviors are not only tolerated, but also covered up. E.g Ed Martin and the cash cakes, and what happens at Ohio State and the SEC schools all the time.

In this case, there was no criminal behavior, but there was unethical behavior, in my book. And it wasn't individual players doing it outside the boundaries of the institution. It was a head coach, who represents the program and the university. If you can't see the difference, I don't know what to tell you.

If you think no one will be talking about the Swenson situation, you're in fantasy land. Harbaugh has a pattern of such tactics, and the next time it happens, the noise will only amplify. I don't believe the claims that Swenson was taken care of with an academic scholarship, unless that is substantiated.

I don't doubt you're right -- while Swenson is a bit of a special case, Harbaugh did indeed accept commitments from players while still on the prowl for prettier dates -- this was his MO at Stanford and it continues here at UM. Guess that's the ethical price we pay for being competitive at the very top in the world of the 85 scholllie limit.

Face facts UM fans (and I am a grad, myself) -- you are now living in the smarmy world it takes to win national championships.

 

[jbannan]

I believe that in his last year at Stanford Coach Harbaugh had 18 commits that never signed their Letters of Intent on signing day. I am sure there were many reasons that this happened, but it does appear to show a pattern.

 

[EvanstonCat]

EvanstonCat still appears to be butt-hurt over an Illinois kid "REFUSING" his new coaching staffs request to attend summer camp so they could further evaluate him. The kid committed 3 years ago to a different coach. I think this was a logical request by Harbaugh and staff and cannot beleive why those from the Northwestern Forum are continuing to ONLY tell one side of the story.

Now, this is just some pure BS. If you don't want to inherit Hoke's recruits, then tell him when you come aboard that he no longer has an offer. Don't rerecruit him, assure him still has an offer to UM to play for Jim Harbaugh and celebrate when he affirms his commitment. If you had a problem with not attending camp, then pull the scholarship in the summer. If you didn't think he performed his senior year, then pull the scholie then. Don't send a coach to his home in December telling him to get ready to play for Michigan. Don't pull his scholarship 3 weeks before signing date, and just before you get another OT that you like better to come aboard.

 

[jbannan]

The film of the new OT does not look any better than Swenson's. He appears to lumber some when he runs.

 

[JRforUM]

The film of the new OT does not look any better than Swenson's. He appears to lumber some when he runs.

Awesome video analysis, sparty!
Are you one of Dicktonio's scouts? You sound like you should be.

Go Blue!

 

[detroitjohn]

It appears that 38 points also bought us a great deal of moralizing...