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How good of a football coach do you think Lloyd Carr was?

Wolverine50550

Letterman
Jul 19, 2015
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I think Lloyd Carr was a good solid coach, but hard for me to say he was great. Every season outside of 1997, did Michigan ever truly have a great season? Lots of solid seasons and occasional very good ones, but never once outside of 1997 did we finish in the top 4 and lose only 1 game or less. We always lost 2+ games and usually 3 or more games. Now granted that is awesome compared to the last 7 years, but never truly elite like OSU under Tressel and now Meyer, Oklahoma under Stoops, FSU, Florida and Nebraska in the 1990s and USC under Carroll form 2002-2008 or Alabama under Saban from 2008 to present.

Some would say Lloyd Carr was mediocre and always did less with more outside of 1997 and 2006. Some say he is great because of his consistency. I cannot take away what he did, but I cannot downgrade him to mediocre, nor can I say he is great. So in my mind he was good, but not great.

For a young fan only 31 years old only exposed to Michigan football from 1993 season to present, the 1997 is the only season I can look back at and think Michigan was truly elite. Now it was extra special that year, because qwe did in fact win an NC, but every other season, we seemed to always lose at least 1 game we should not have lost which prevented us from having that great 12-1 top 4 finish we so desired. And to me, that is significnatr even if no NC is involved, especially when mixed in with 1 NC in the coaches career.

Had Michigan not lost to Illinois in 1999, to Iowa and Oregon in 2003 and Notre Dame and Syracuse in 1998, I think Lloyd Carr would have been a great coach and the last 7 years as dreadfully painful as they have been would not have been as unbearable because Michigan would have been elite before where as they really were not outside of one special season.

I think what we need at Michigan is greatness. And I think we now have the coach who will bring it to us in Harbaugh. Do you expect Harbaugh to do better than Lloyd Carr. I do and think he will over the long run although nothing is ever for sure.

So how good was Lloyd Carr. Did he do more with less? Was he only good. Or not even that and just mediocre with all the talent he had. Or do you think he was a great coach who had bad luck that stopped us from having another NC contending season or did his coaching hold us back those years.
 
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I always thought Loyd was an average coach at best and outside of 1997, Michigan always lost more games than they actually should have considering the talent that Carr recruited to Ann Arbor. Many times, Michigan looked and played uninspired football and seemed to be content with losing 3-4 games during the season. The game passed him by in his final years as did our rival OSU under Tressel. Carr went out on a great note when he outcoached Urban Meyer in his final game. Had Loyd approached each game like he did that game then he may have had at lekast one more NC at Michigan. Michigan really thumped Urbies Gators in that bowl game.
 
I think your current coach has a long way to go to match Coach Carr. Carr was a Gentleman...
 
unless you know him personally then I would be careful calling him a "Gentleman." I love Coach Carr, however, if the rumors were ever true about his involvement in the Rich Rod search and debacle then he was anything but a "Gentleman." If those stories tell the truth then he was a POS who had his personal interests at stake instead of the program and the those involved in it. I hope they were not true. I do think he knew in December that the program was going to fall off the map unless a major hire was made and that he why he was publicly endorsing Harbaugh before the hire actually happened. Carr stayed too long and Michigan's failure to move into modernity from 2000 through 2007 crushed the program. RR failed the moment he accepted the job before he checked anything out and that was his fault. Hoke on the other hand proved he is nothing more than an assistant coach at the major college level. Michigan's incompetent leadership coupled with its good old boy politics from 2007 (Mary Coleman, Sailor Bill, David Brandon etc.) came within a whisker of erasing it from college football relevance forever. It took an educated outsider (current president who is not into athletics but understands their importance to fire Brandon and Hoke) He also trusted that Jim Hackett would make the most important hire in football history since Bo's hire. Thank God for Michigan that Mark Schissel was hired and had the guts to change everything before the ship went to bottom to stay.
 
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Vienna sausage, stay with your mother and don't post BS

For your info LC wanted to retire after a RB loss but the AD insisted he return for another (sad) season. Recruiting had slowed down his final 3 years (after the Henne glass signing) and so did his desire. He only returned at the request of Martin.
 
I agree with the original poster. He was good not great, not average. There were many seasons where we would have top 5 talent and get 4 losses for the year. His downfall was that he couldn't beat Tressel. He probably was asked to retire earlier than he wanted. I think this is why he acted poorly with the Rich Rod situation.
 
to Blue Coral. LC wanted to step down after losing another Rose Bowl but Martin begged him to remain the HC for one more season. With 12 months to shop you'd figure that Martin would have a list of candidates and quietly review the interest in the position knowing it would be open. That's why Martin is still so beloved.
 
That's why Martin is still so beloved.

I can't agree more. Martin (Sailor Bill) was a business man with the dollar in mind period!!!! The main target was Miles who was on his way until the public announcement that compromised his run for the national championship that year. After that it was a free for all that crushed the program for 7 years.
 
I think Lloyd Carr was a good solid coach, but hard for me to say he was great. Every season outside of 1997, did Michigan ever truly have a great season? Lots of solid seasons and occasional very good ones, but never once outside of 1997 did we finish in the top 4 and lose only 1 game or less. We always lost 2+ games and usually 3 or more games. Now granted that is awesome compared to the last 7 years, but never truly elite like OSU under Tressel and now Meyer, Oklahoma under Stoops, FSU, Florida and Nebraska in the 1990s and USC under Carroll form 2002-2008 or Alabama under Saban from 2008 to present.

Some would say Lloyd Carr was mediocre and always did less with more outside of 1997 and 2006. Some say he is great because of his consistency. I cannot take away what he did, but I cannot downgrade him to mediocre, nor can I say he is great. So in my mind he was good, but not great.

For a young fan only 31 years old only exposed to Michigan football from 1993 season to present, the 1997 is the only season I can look back at and think Michigan was truly elite. Now it was extra special that year, because qwe did in fact win an NC, but every other season, we seemed to always lose at least 1 game we should not have lost which prevented us from having that great 12-1 top 4 finish we so desired. And to me, that is significnatr even if no NC is involved, especially when mixed in with 1 NC in the coaches career.

Had Michigan not lost to Illinois in 1999, to Iowa and Oregon in 2003 and Notre Dame and Syracuse in 1998, I think Lloyd Carr would have been a great coach and the last 7 years as dreadfully painful as they have been would not have been as unbearable because Michigan would have been elite before where as they really were not outside of one special season.

I think what we need at Michigan is greatness. And I think we now have the coach who will bring it to us in Harbaugh. Do you expect Harbaugh to do better than Lloyd Carr. I do and think he will over the long run although nothing is ever for sure.

So how good was Lloyd Carr. Did he do more with less? Was he only good. Or not even that and just mediocre with all the talent he had. Or do you think he was a great coach who had bad luck that stopped us from having another NC contending season or did his coaching hold us back those years.


I think you post is very good. I knew Coach Carr back when he was an assistant coach. He was there DC , ran the FB camp, while Mo was there and when he got promoted to HC he cried for he lost a great close friend in MO. He knew FB and he knew recruiting from the time he was there. We would speak many times each season about New Jersey when he 1st got there for NJ was one of his recruiting states besides, Del, Maryland, Eastern Pa, NYC and lower Conn. He is also extremely smart in that he read a lot and shared those stories , authors and the idea behind the "works".

WE lost games that we shouldn't have and it hurt all of us including Carr. I do believe he was honest and wanted out for the betterment of UM FB, but the AD asked him to stay. I also believe that HE knew what the culture and CHANGE UM would go through with RR. He didn't want to see that and nether did I.. He was truly tied to Coach' Bo's Philosophy and I agree . He may without telling us knew more about RR's toughness and what RR would go through in the BT. Speculation yes, but He knew coaches all around the nation ,and may have understand what RR would do. It wouldn't be UM FB and I again agree.

I was with a staff that had a philosophy of playing a 5-2 defense and run the Wing -T. A new HC came in and wanted to run a different program and he didn't stay long for the kids couldn't do it. We were not a toss sweep and throw the ball. We were not a blitzing team with a thousand blitzes . The kids couldn't remember them all. He moved on and we had a guy on the staff get the job. Went back to the old ways and won a states championship in 2009.

I don't believe Carr was average , but not great either. He was a solid UM FB coach who loved Michigan as Bo did. Remember Bo never won a Championship and yet we idolize him , as I do. If 10 was a Greta coach and BO was a 10 based on what he did overall and against OSU then Coach Carr was a 9 for winning a Championship and beating OSU 6 times. ( 6-7 I think was his overall record ) I think coach Jim will be a solid coach but the story has not been written yet about if he will be great. WE sill see the opening chapter within a month or so. "74
 
I never thought he was any good, but he wasn't my coach so who am I to say?

He did deliver on one !/2 title, that is worth about !/2 of a title.

N i t t a n y A m e r i c a


 
Not that recruiting class ratings correspond 1 to 1 with on the field performance, but there is a significant overall correlation. If you look at Carr's average recruiting class rating and his average end of season rating, there was one of the larger discrepancies for a major program. Also, I still burn about the Rose Bowl beating where USC players were astounded that we didn't make half-time adjustments. Way too many 3-plus loss seasons. He was a great assistant coach, but an average head coach with major talent so his record was reasonable.
 
Just double checked. In 13 seasons, he lost 3 or more 10, that is TEN, times. Enough said.
 
I think Lloyd Carr was a good solid coach, but hard for me to say he was great. Every season outside of 1997, did Michigan ever truly have a great season? Lots of solid seasons and occasional very good ones, but never once outside of 1997 did we finish in the top 4 and lose only 1 game or less. We always lost 2+ games and usually 3 or more games. Now granted that is awesome compared to the last 7 years, but never truly elite like OSU under Tressel and now Meyer, Oklahoma under Stoops, FSU, Florida and Nebraska in the 1990s and USC under Carroll form 2002-2008 or Alabama under Saban from 2008 to present.

Some would say Lloyd Carr was mediocre and always did less with more outside of 1997 and 2006. Some say he is great because of his consistency. I cannot take away what he did, but I cannot downgrade him to mediocre, nor can I say he is great. So in my mind he was good, but not great.

For a young fan only 31 years old only exposed to Michigan football from 1993 season to present, the 1997 is the only season I can look back at and think Michigan was truly elite. Now it was extra special that year, because qwe did in fact win an NC, but every other season, we seemed to always lose at least 1 game we should not have lost which prevented us from having that great 12-1 top 4 finish we so desired. And to me, that is significnatr even if no NC is involved, especially when mixed in with 1 NC in the coaches career.

Had Michigan not lost to Illinois in 1999, to Iowa and Oregon in 2003 and Notre Dame and Syracuse in 1998, I think Lloyd Carr would have been a great coach and the last 7 years as dreadfully painful as they have been would not have been as unbearable because Michigan would have been elite before where as they really were not outside of one special season.

I think what we need at Michigan is greatness. And I think we now have the coach who will bring it to us in Harbaugh. Do you expect Harbaugh to do better than Lloyd Carr. I do and think he will over the long run although nothing is ever for sure.

So how good was Lloyd Carr. Did he do more with less? Was he only good. Or not even that and just mediocre with all the talent he had. Or do you think he was a great coach who had bad luck that stopped us from having another NC contending season or did his coaching hold us back those years.
I thought Carr was really good. He always seemed to have our (MSU) number. Of course, a lot of those years were Bobby Williams and John L. Smith.

I was talking to a couple of UM fans down here in Houston a few weeks ago, and the one guy said he didn't like Carr. He pointed out that he had great talent, and didn't win as much as he should have. He went on to say that one of his teams eventually had 20 players drafter from it (over the next four NFL drafts) and Carr should have been able to beat any team in the country with that type of talent. I look it up, and indeed, 20 players from that team were drafted. What I didn't see was a lot of first round picks. OSU's had teams with 13 first rounders. Miami has had teams with 20+. FSU, USC, Texas, Alabama, all have had teams with incredible amounts of talent. Don't get me wrong, UM has had its share of talent, but I do think you guys consistently over estimate it.

BTW, if we are going to judge talent by the number of players drafted by the NFL, over the past 15 years, the top three in the Big Ten have been OSU (by a mile), Wisconsin and Iowa. Then it's PSU and UM.
 
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Just double checked. In 13 seasons, he lost 3 or more 10, that is TEN, times. Enough said.
Outside of Bo, in the modern era of football, what UM coach has done better? And even comparing him to Bo, who had the better bowl record, and the better record v top ten teams? Hey, it's the day and age of 85 scholarships. Much tougher to be dominant today.
 
I think Lloyd Carr was a good solid coach, but hard for me to say he was great. Every season outside of 1997, did Michigan ever truly have a great season? Lots of solid seasons and occasional very good ones, but never once outside of 1997 did we finish in the top 4 and lose only 1 game or less. We always lost 2+ games and usually 3 or more games. Now granted that is awesome compared to the last 7 years, but never truly elite like OSU under Tressel and now Meyer, Oklahoma under Stoops, FSU, Florida and Nebraska in the 1990s and USC under Carroll form 2002-2008 or Alabama under Saban from 2008 to present.

Some would say Lloyd Carr was mediocre and always did less with more outside of 1997 and 2006. Some say he is great because of his consistency. I cannot take away what he did, but I cannot downgrade him to mediocre, nor can I say he is great. So in my mind he was good, but not great.

For a young fan only 31 years old only exposed to Michigan football from 1993 season to present, the 1997 is the only season I can look back at and think Michigan was truly elite. Now it was extra special that year, because qwe did in fact win an NC, but every other season, we seemed to always lose at least 1 game we should not have lost which prevented us from having that great 12-1 top 4 finish we so desired. And to me, that is significnatr even if no NC is involved, especially when mixed in with 1 NC in the coaches career.

Had Michigan not lost to Illinois in 1999, to Iowa and Oregon in 2003 and Notre Dame and Syracuse in 1998, I think Lloyd Carr would have been a great coach and the last 7 years as dreadfully painful as they have been would not have been as unbearable because Michigan would have been elite before where as they really were not outside of one special season.

I think what we need at Michigan is greatness. And I think we now have the coach who will bring it to us in Harbaugh. Do you expect Harbaugh to do better than Lloyd Carr. I do and think he will over the long run although nothing is ever for sure.

So how good was Lloyd Carr. Did he do more with less? Was he only good. Or not even that and just mediocre with all the talent he had. Or do you think he was a great coach who had bad luck that stopped us from having another NC contending season or did his coaching hold us back those years.

I think he had a span of 6-8 years where he was as good as there was for what he was, and by what he was I mean running a clean program, not willing to do typical Sec recruiting things, making sure kids go to class/graduate, running a tight ship and developing men.
 
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He was ok, nothing more and nothing less. He did win a national title, and completely owned the child molester Jo Pa (and did quite well against the rivals), but did lose far too many games he should have won.
 
I think Lloyd Carr was a good solid coach, but hard for me to say he was great. Every season outside of 1997, did Michigan ever truly have a great season? Lots of solid seasons and occasional very good ones, but never once outside of 1997 did we finish in the top 4 and lose only 1 game or less. We always lost 2+ games and usually 3 or more games. Now granted that is awesome compared to the last 7 years, but never truly elite like OSU under Tressel and now Meyer, Oklahoma under Stoops, FSU, Florida and Nebraska in the 1990s and USC under Carroll form 2002-2008 or Alabama under Saban from 2008 to present.

Some would say Lloyd Carr was mediocre and always did less with more outside of 1997 and 2006. Some say he is great because of his consistency. I cannot take away what he did, but I cannot downgrade him to mediocre, nor can I say he is great. So in my mind he was good, but not great.

For a young fan only 31 years old only exposed to Michigan football from 1993 season to present, the 1997 is the only season I can look back at and think Michigan was truly elite. Now it was extra special that year, because qwe did in fact win an NC, but every other season, we seemed to always lose at least 1 game we should not have lost which prevented us from having that great 12-1 top 4 finish we so desired. And to me, that is significnatr even if no NC is involved, especially when mixed in with 1 NC in the coaches career.

Had Michigan not lost to Illinois in 1999, to Iowa and Oregon in 2003 and Notre Dame and Syracuse in 1998, I think Lloyd Carr would have been a great coach and the last 7 years as dreadfully painful as they have been would not have been as unbearable because Michigan would have been elite before where as they really were not outside of one special season.

I think what we need at Michigan is greatness. And I think we now have the coach who will bring it to us in Harbaugh. Do you expect Harbaugh to do better than Lloyd Carr. I do and think he will over the long run although nothing is ever for sure.

So how good was Lloyd Carr. Did he do more with less? Was he only good. Or not even that and just mediocre with all the talent he had. Or do you think he was a great coach who had bad luck that stopped us from having another NC contending season or did his coaching hold us back those years.
LC was a coach that inherited the M name from Bo and the personnel from Mohler. He wouldn't make any team better than they were, regardless of what team it was, wrong for M but right w the old M guard.
 
Aww. Still crying from penn state?? What a surprise. Lloyd did own joe ped

QUOTE="NittanyAmerica, post: 490443, member: 28119"]You didn't beat us; you just stole the game. What a surprise?????

N i t t a n y A m e r i c a


[/QUOTE]
 
"Stole the game" Good Lord.

Penn State got beat. They couldn't stop the last Michigan drive and got beat.

Henne to Manningham, baby.

It's been 10 years; long time to be clinging to a bs excuse.

Go Blue. Always.
 
It is okay, you stole the game, but it is what it is and nothing you say can change it...

N i t t a n y A m e r i c a


 
Outside of Bo, in the modern era of football, what UM coach has done better?

Mo did better.

Throwing out ties, Bo lost one in five games, Mo did almost as well, and Lo lost one in four. Lloyd lost more games by a far greater average score than Bo and Mo.

Carr's NC was achieved with Mo's players. 18 of the 22 starters on the '97 team were recruited by Mo. Personally, I think Mo was headed for greatness with those players, and would have truly capitalized on that NC, which Carr didn't do. There was a slow erosion of momentum after '97.
 
Mo did better.

Throwing out ties, Bo lost one in five games, Mo did almost as well, and Lo lost one in four. Lloyd lost more games by a far greater average score than Bo and Mo.

Carr's NC was achieved with Mo's players. 18 of the 22 starters on the '97 team were recruited by Mo. Personally, I think Mo was headed for greatness with those players, and would have truly capitalized on that NC, which Carr didn't do. There was a slow erosion of momentum after '97.

No kididng baout the erosion after 1997.

I mean in 1998, how in the world are we not prepared to play the first 2 games. Against Niotre Dame and Syracuse. Those were inexcusable performances. I know Syracuse had McNabb, but they didn;t have much else and they embarassed us at the Big House.

That's one of the many reasons why Lloyd Carr was only good and not great IMHO for his career.
 
I think Lloyd Carr was a good solid coach, but hard for me to say he was great. Every season outside of 1997, did Michigan ever truly have a great season? Lots of solid seasons and occasional very good ones, but never once outside of 1997 did we finish in the top 4 and lose only 1 game or less. We always lost 2+ games and usually 3 or more games. Now granted that is awesome compared to the last 7 years, but never truly elite like OSU under Tressel and now Meyer, Oklahoma under Stoops, FSU, Florida and Nebraska in the 1990s and USC under Carroll form 2002-2008 or Alabama under Saban from 2008 to present.

Some would say Lloyd Carr was mediocre and always did less with more outside of 1997 and 2006. Some say he is great because of his consistency. I cannot take away what he did, but I cannot downgrade him to mediocre, nor can I say he is great. So in my mind he was good, but not great.

For a young fan only 31 years old only exposed to Michigan football from 1993 season to present, the 1997 is the only season I can look back at and think Michigan was truly elite. Now it was extra special that year, because qwe did in fact win an NC, but every other season, we seemed to always lose at least 1 game we should not have lost which prevented us from having that great 12-1 top 4 finish we so desired. And to me, that is significnatr even if no NC is involved, especially when mixed in with 1 NC in the coaches career.

Had Michigan not lost to Illinois in 1999, to Iowa and Oregon in 2003 and Notre Dame and Syracuse in 1998, I think Lloyd Carr would have been a great coach and the last 7 years as dreadfully painful as they have been would not have been as unbearable because Michigan would have been elite before where as they really were not outside of one special season.

I think what we need at Michigan is greatness. And I think we now have the coach who will bring it to us in Harbaugh. Do you expect Harbaugh to do better than Lloyd Carr. I do and think he will over the long run although nothing is ever for sure.

So how good was Lloyd Carr. Did he do more with less? Was he only good. Or not even that and just mediocre with all the talent he had. Or do you think he was a great coach who had bad luck that stopped us from having another NC contending season or did his coaching hold us back those years.
Good Coach, the best Michigan has had since Bo.
 
I think Lloyd Carr was a good solid coach, but hard for me to say he was great. Every season outside of 1997, did Michigan ever truly have a great season? Lots of solid seasons and occasional very good ones, but never once outside of 1997 did we finish in the top 4 and lose only 1 game or less. We always lost 2+ games and usually 3 or more games. Now granted that is awesome compared to the last 7 years, but never truly elite like OSU under Tressel and now Meyer, Oklahoma under Stoops, FSU, Florida and Nebraska in the 1990s and USC under Carroll form 2002-2008 or Alabama under Saban from 2008 to present.

Some would say Lloyd Carr was mediocre and always did less with more outside of 1997 and 2006. Some say he is great because of his consistency. I cannot take away what he did, but I cannot downgrade him to mediocre, nor can I say he is great. So in my mind he was good, but not great.

For a young fan only 31 years old only exposed to Michigan football from 1993 season to present, the 1997 is the only season I can look back at and think Michigan was truly elite. Now it was extra special that year, because qwe did in fact win an NC, but every other season, we seemed to always lose at least 1 game we should not have lost which prevented us from having that great 12-1 top 4 finish we so desired. And to me, that is significnatr even if no NC is involved, especially when mixed in with 1 NC in the coaches career.

Had Michigan not lost to Illinois in 1999, to Iowa and Oregon in 2003 and Notre Dame and Syracuse in 1998, I think Lloyd Carr would have been a great coach and the last 7 years as dreadfully painful as they have been would not have been as unbearable because Michigan would have been elite before where as they really were not outside of one special season.

I think what we need at Michigan is greatness. And I think we now have the coach who will bring it to us in Harbaugh. Do you expect Harbaugh to do better than Lloyd Carr. I do and think he will over the long run although nothing is ever for sure.

So how good was Lloyd Carr. Did he do more with less? Was he only good. Or not even that and just mediocre with all the talent he had. Or do you think he was a great coach who had bad luck that stopped us from having another NC contending season or did his coaching hold us back those years.


Carr was a good coach but that's it. He was notorious for losses to teams he should won and got the job because GM stuck his nose in a liquor glass to often, one night.
 
Didn't Carr have a better bowl record and more wins v top ten teams than Bo? Carr also had UM's only national title since 1948. To go a step further, didn't Carr have to deal with the 85 man scholarship limit and for the most part, Bo didn't. When was the Big Ten better, in the 70's to mid-80's or from the mid-80's to 2007?

I think Carr did about as good as you can do at UM.
 
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Didn't Carr have a better bowl record and more wins v top ten teams than Bo? Carr also had UM's only national title since 1948. To go a step further, didn't Carr have to deal with the 85 man scholarship limit and for the most part, Bo didn't. When was the Big Ten better, in the 70's to mid-80's or from the mid-80's to 2007?

I think Carr did about as good as you can do at UM.

I do not agree. Carr lost 2 or more games ever year except 1997. To be elite, you need multiple 1 loss or undefeated seasons.

Bo had tons of 1 loss or undefeated seasons. He never got us that NC, but he was in the hunt a lot.

If you add Carr's 1997 season to Bo's resume, Bo's resume would blow Lloyd's out of the water.

I mean Lloyd Carr could not even match the lieks of Tressel, Osborne, Bowden, or Spurrier in the 1990s. He couldn;t even match Stoops run from 2000-2004. Not even close to Saban from 2008 to present nor Meyer's time at Florida nor at OSU.

I mean look at your 2013 season in which MSU went 13-1 and finished #3. They had no NC to show for it, but still was a great season for you guys. Lloyd Carr should have been able to ahve a season like it because even without an NC, it means something to say you were among the elite even though you were not #1.

Lloyd Carr was a solid/good coach, but never elite. He underachieved a little too much for my liking.

I think Lloyd Carr was kind of like Earl Bruce Part 2, excpet he did win Michigan an NC, but other than that his reuslts were very Earle Bruce like being solid, but not elite.

I expect Harbaugh to be like Bo in terms of success, but better as I believe he will get us 1 NC as well. Anything less would be a little disappointing as he was considered not just a homerun hire, but a grandslam hire and there is a reason for that, so those are the expectations in the long run with Harbaugh.
 
I do not agree. Carr lost 2 or more games ever year except 1997. To be elite, you need multiple 1 loss or undefeated seasons.

Bo had tons of 1 loss or undefeated seasons. He never got us that NC, but he was in the hunt a lot.

If you add Carr's 1997 season to Bo's resume, Bo's resume would blow Lloyd's out of the water.

I mean Lloyd Carr could not even match the lieks of Tressel, Osborne, Bowden, or Spurrier in the 1990s. He couldn;t even match Stoops run from 2000-2004. Not even close to Saban from 2008 to present nor Meyer's time at Florida nor at OSU.

I mean look at your 2013 season in which MSU went 13-1 and finished #3. They had no NC to show for it, but still was a great season for you guys. Lloyd Carr should have been able to ahve a season like it because even without an NC, it means something to say you were among the elite even though you were not #1.

Lloyd Carr was a solid/good coach, but never elite. He underachieved a little too much for my liking.

I think Lloyd Carr was kind of like Earl Bruce Part 2, excpet he did win Michigan an NC, but other than that his reuslts were very Earle Bruce like being solid, but not elite.

I expect Harbaugh to be like Bo in terms of success, but better as I believe he will get us 1 NC as well. Anything less would be a little disappointing as he was considered not just a homerun hire, but a grandslam hire and there is a reason for that, so those are the expectations in the long run with Harbaugh.

Look back at the teams Bo played. Very PSU-like prior to PSU joining the Big Ten. Bo was great, but when he had to play the big boys outside of the Big Ten, his teams did not fair well. Carr on the other hand, did pretty damn good in games against the top teams.

Then look at the depth of the Big Ten under Carr. Much stronger than when Bo was in charge. I was just having this conversation with a guy about how much tougher it is to win the Big Ten today than it was back in the 70's and 80's. Hell, and if we add Texas, OU or ND to the conference, the days of anyone winning a conference championship every couple of years will be long gone.
 
Carr lost games he should not have ,BUT he never played and when a player screws up Car should NOT get the credit for why they lost !! Case in point they lost to Minny his last years. UM had a lead at home, and the RB for Minny made a log run late in the game when the secondary 'Lost' Leverage ( contain ) and he got outside. Does Carr get blamed for that?? He coaches with the staff but the secondary has to be accountable. UM lost 4 game his last year, 2007 and yet had many injuries. Do you think they beat OSU with a healthy team? I say they have agreat shot at it with a healthy team like the one that kicked butt in the Bowl game against Urban and Florida. "74
 
I would counter that Bo's bowl games were against much better opponents than Carr's.
 
Solid but not very innovative. Liked to play it safe and let the talent win over. When you consider his recruiting record compared with wins losses...not that impressive.

What really hurt Carr the most was that awful start in 2007 where they lost to Appy st. and blown out by Oregon and later a very uninspired loss to OSU after being ranked #1 pre season. How can a big time coach lose to Appy?
 
Lloyd Carr was a GREAT coach that unfortunately for the fans (fortunately for his assistant coaches) surrounded himself with his friends as assistants who too often turned out to be poor coaches. I highly respect Lloyd and I highly respect loyalty but Carr pushed it to a limit when he elevated his buddies to positions past their level of incompetence, imo. With regard to the follow up to his 1997 NC, the start to the 1998 season was simply unlucky with a horrific number of preseason injuries at LB. It was NOT about lack of preparedness but ALL about key injuries. We lost Sword at LB in fall practice and then lost 3 or 4 more LBs in succession the week before the first game. We were starting two WALK ON linebackers vs a scramblng Donnavon McNabb for gosh sakes and the result was just as I feared going into that season.
 
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