This is why Drew Sharp is ONLY a fan and journalist because he has no clue about football and what good coaching can mean within a program. Quite frankly, there have been many Michigan fans on here over since Harbaugh got the job also predicting that Michigan can only win 6 games this year becuase they don't have this or that and that it is impossible to beat MSU or OSU this year. The one thing that clearly separates us from the Buckeyes is they are coached well and play with confidence: Urban Myer is a great coach because he can take a player and COACH them to play in his system which is whatever system is going to benefit his team. Huge difference from guys like Rich Rod who immediately try to play kids in system that does not their display athletic strengths. The difference? Rich Rod's first year at Michigan trying to run a spread option offense with players that simply did not have the athletic abilities to do it and his God awful 3-3-5 with slow people. Urban's first year at OSU UNDEFEATED with players that were 6-7 the year before. This is where people are dismissing Harbaugh and saying that is does not have the talent this year to win 6 games. Bullshit!!!! Harbaugh will place his players this year in a position to succeed for the team and they will win possibly 10 games. Hell, Mattison transformed Rich Rod's God awful defense in 1 year from 109th to 16 th overall and only lost two games with them!!!!!!! Michigan fans and others that are saying "Urban inherited better players than Harbaugh-WHY DON'T YOU GO AHEAD AND THROW IN THE TOWEL RIGHT NOW AND DECLARE MICHIGAN WITH 5 LOSSES INCLUDING THE OSU GAME BFORE WE KICK OFF!!!!! YOU HAVE LOST IN YOUR MIND BEFORE THE GAME IS EVEN PLAYED. I bet Harbaugh is not coaching this way!!! He doesn't give a shit about last year. Michigan had excellent recruiting classes under Brady during this tenure, however, they were not coached. Last year, they quit on Brady. Under Harbaugh, Michigan will win 10 games this year and I will be posting on here in November laughing my ass off about it. THEY HAVE THE PLAYERS NOW AND THE COACHING TO GO ALONG WITH IT.
Drew Sharp's 2015 Michigan Football Prediction 7-5
- Thread starter scfanblue
- Start date
What do you think Michigan will do this year? Better then 7-5 can happen but a few things will have to come together. I have you guys at 6-6 or 7-5. What do you think?
I'm sure you do Spartan fan. Of course you want Michigan to go 7-6 or 6-6. That's not going to happen under Harbaugh and you know that. Michigan's roster is not that depleted and because the Big 10 had success in the bowls last year does not make the conference suddenly as good as the SEC from top to bottom. I do agree with Sharp and that is right now the Big 10 is a ONE team show and that would be OSU. From top to bottom, it is nowhere the football conference like the SEC is and that is a fact that can;t be argued. Playing Purdue, Illinois, Indiana is a far cry from going to South Carolina, Ole Miss, or Tennessee every week. The SEC has a number of RECENT national championships from different programs and OSU is the ONLY Big 10 team to win it since the 2000's began. The other would have been Michigan in 1997. When did the Spartans win a national championship? Was Nixon or Lincoln in office then?
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Well we will all know in a few months. I have a best case of 10-2 and a worst case of 8-4. OSU is a bad example in Urban's first year because most of the players returned and hardly anyone left the team. We have had a lot of folks leaving the team and no players developed last year so it's not an Apples to Apples comparison. I hope JH wins all his games every year each year but I think there will be growing pains. I do think we win more then 5 games. There are only 4 truly losable games on our schedule:
@Utah
Michigan State
@Penn State
Ohio State
I don't see how we lose to any other team under JH - remember if not for a terrible third quarter where Morris threw like 4 picks against Minn we would have beaten them as well. I also, personally do believe that JH will will us to at least a win over OSU or MSU because he will make sure his team is incredibly well prepared for this and he knows 0-2 against those two is only going to cause angst amongst the Michigan faithful. So I am going to go out a limb and say that Michigan goes:
9 - 3 (losses @Penn State, Ohio State, @Utah)...yep, I think they beat MSU this year at home
@Utah
Michigan State
@Penn State
Ohio State
I don't see how we lose to any other team under JH - remember if not for a terrible third quarter where Morris threw like 4 picks against Minn we would have beaten them as well. I also, personally do believe that JH will will us to at least a win over OSU or MSU because he will make sure his team is incredibly well prepared for this and he knows 0-2 against those two is only going to cause angst amongst the Michigan faithful. So I am going to go out a limb and say that Michigan goes:
9 - 3 (losses @Penn State, Ohio State, @Utah)...yep, I think they beat MSU this year at home
I think they beat MSU this year at home
That's more like it from a Michigan fan. I think we also beat MSU this year at home and we beat Utah. I still think we win 10 games this year.
I am not trying to be mean. I just like to be realistic and not drink the cool aid. Let's look at this step by step and not do the blind worshiper approach.
5-7 (3-5) last year
Michigan's Defense: Last year this unit finished 7th overall one spot higher then MSU's defense. How much better could this unit be this season? Realistically it will be around the same level again. Keep in mind you were 5-7 last year.
Michigan's Offense: With the exception of the TE position. Michigan have major question marks at every other position group on offense. If your Oline improves, If you find a RB, If you find a WR, If you find a QB, then yes, I could see 9-3 or 10-2. If none of these four position groups improve I could see 4-8 or 5-7. Realistically let's say 2 of these 4 groups improve. That's why I split the difference and say 6-6 or 7-5. You lose a lot of big play potential without Gardner and Funchess. However, I do see one major saving grace for Michigan this season. With Rudock at the helm no way you will be -16 in turnover margin this season. I see this stat around "zero" this season and this would help quite a bit.
How do you know the defense will be at the same level again? Gardner and Funchess as big play material? Funchess was NON EXISTANT for most of the season last year and Gardner was a turnover machine. Really? Come on man, you can't be drinking Kool-Aid because you are drinking something else with this kind of logic. I bet you post that our chance of good coaching went with Brady Hoke when he was fired. I got one for you. Explain how Greg Mattison in 2011 took an absolutely horrible high school looking defense and turned it around with the SAME PLAYERS to reach 16th from 109th in one season. He didn't wait to recruit 11- 5 star defenders either and he even beat MSU that year. That is called outstanding coaching. The game still has to be played and it does nto really matter what I or you predict but there is one item that is for certain. Do you really think that Harbaugh is coming into a worse situation than he did coming into Stanford his first year??? Even coming off of a 5-7 season because Hoke was essentially fired in the first week of October, Michigan's roster is still loaded with talent. Despite Hoke, Michigan was the YOUNGEST roster in the Big 10 last year. There is no way the Wolverines this year have a 5-7 record unless they experience 20 torn ACL's. I think Harbaugh will scare the hell out of people this year and Michigan will win 10 or more games even beating the Spartans in Ann Arbor. In the meanwhile, he will be training his future quarterback behind Jake Ruddock who I think will start in front of Shane Morris.
A major difference between Meyer in his first year and Harbaugh in his first year at UM, is the quality of the conference. There was no defending National Champion with a large number of returning starters on the schedule for the Buckeyes. PSU was in turmoil and had a freshman QB and should be much better this season. MSU in 2012 wasn't nearly the same team as they were in 2013, 2014, and will be in 2015.
Utah is better than any of OSU's OOC opponents that season.
I don't think the final record is as important for Michigan's future as to how they play in the games, especially against the top confrence teams, and if they improve over the course of the season. If those things happen, it's ok for Michigan to have 3-5 losses because 2016 should be much better.
Utah is better than any of OSU's OOC opponents that season.
I don't think the final record is as important for Michigan's future as to how they play in the games, especially against the top confrence teams, and if they improve over the course of the season. If those things happen, it's ok for Michigan to have 3-5 losses because 2016 should be much better.
Acting like a 7-5 prediction for Michigan is crazy just shows that you're and enormous homer and out of touch with the reality of the team
The Over/Under for regular season wins in Vegas is 7.5
So all the Michigan fans in this thread are acting like someone taking the under (by the smallest amount possible) is crazy
Statistically speaking Michigan is significantly more likely to be 7-5 than 9-3
The Over/Under for regular season wins in Vegas is 7.5
So all the Michigan fans in this thread are acting like someone taking the under (by the smallest amount possible) is crazy
Statistically speaking Michigan is significantly more likely to be 7-5 than 9-3
It's the deck!! You have bigger things to worry about, like Brian Kelly coaching your team.
Stay on your board Deck-you have nothing to worry about because your AD backed out of the Michigan series just in time to avoid an annual opening game ass kicking by the Harbaugh led Wolverines. Did those Vegas statistics help your AD predict that? I remember when Michigan was predicted in 2011 season to lose possibly 6- 7 games during Brady's transission. Can you remember that season 11-2 correct? Vegas betting has nothing to do with understanding the dynamics of a program. Everything is based upon the numbers coming back and the predicted strength of schedule. Michigan plays a tough out of conference scheudle, however, I am still not convinced that the Big 10 is the new rising super conference of football. It is still OSU and everyone else period. The SEC is not withering in power because a few temas were beaten in the bowl games. In fact, I think the SEC will probably once again wind up sending possibly 2 teams to the playoffs this year. Auburn is going to be scary this year and they can beat the Buckeyes. In fact, so can LSU and Alabama this upcoming season. The SEC is not going anywhere in college football I assure you of that.
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Lake Tahoe Spartan - you are forgetting something. Hoke was 1-3 against the Spartans and the big reason for that was Hoke could not coach a dog to fetch his bone on the road - look at his road record...it was terrible. Michigan State has had the luxury of having 3 of the past 4 games being in East Lansing. Look at the history of that rivalry and home field has played a huge factor. We beat you the last time we played in AA and this year the game will be in AA. Now, I am not saying we would have beaten you the past 2 years if the game was in AA but it would have been a heck of a lot closer and that is why I think we beat you this year. Remember, in a rivalry game - talent, record, etc all go out the door. Watch how Michigan has played OSU the past 3 years - all very very close games that could have gone either way and in each of these years we had no business being even within 20 points of the very high ranked OSU team. I think you are trying to be scientific about your thoughts when I think you throw logic out the door and go with the team that wants it the most - Michigan has not the past few years because Hoke does not motivate on the road and I think home field and JH's fiery personality get us over the hump this year. Either way, I expect it will be a great a game and the best team on that day will come out on top.
For a program with the national name UM has, I wouldn't be bragging too much about one shared national championship since the 1940's.
As for MSU, they are the only team in the country to finish the last two years ranked in the top five. Last time UM managed back to back top five seasons? You have to go back to the 1940's. 1947 and 1948 to be exact.
So what??? Top five two years in a row is still not a national championship and even a SHARED national championship. The 1997 team went undefeated when has the Spartans gone undefeated?
I have Michigan winning eight games, minimum.
We haven't had a HC in nearly four years.
If you REALLY watched Michigan at all last season you would know that while there were gaps in talent
and some in experience, the attitude, the schemes, the in-game coaching - all were unquestionably sub-Michigan.
So while some gaps remain, and Harbaugh is not likely to reel off a 10- or 11-win first season, seven wins under him sure seems like a low-bar expectation.
(and I don't have a major issue issue with that, we all have our opinions)
I have zero doubt that, while there are some who have and some who will move on before the season, there is a much larger contingent of players
ready to get down to brass tacks, be coached up like they thought they would be, and win games like they thought they would.
Sideline laughs while being waxed at Notre Dame. Those days, they gone.
Go BLUE. Always.
We haven't had a HC in nearly four years.
If you REALLY watched Michigan at all last season you would know that while there were gaps in talent
and some in experience, the attitude, the schemes, the in-game coaching - all were unquestionably sub-Michigan.
So while some gaps remain, and Harbaugh is not likely to reel off a 10- or 11-win first season, seven wins under him sure seems like a low-bar expectation.
(and I don't have a major issue issue with that, we all have our opinions)
I have zero doubt that, while there are some who have and some who will move on before the season, there is a much larger contingent of players
ready to get down to brass tacks, be coached up like they thought they would be, and win games like they thought they would.
Sideline laughs while being waxed at Notre Dame. Those days, they gone.
Go BLUE. Always.
You're right. It's been a while since MSU went undefeated. Should have been in 2013. That said, four 11+ win seasons in the past five years is better than pretty damn good, though. BTW, 2015 will be Dantonio's best team since taking over MSU. I'm feeling pretty good about going 5 out of 6.
UM did have quality D's under Hoke though, right? All were in the top third of the Big Ten in total D, and only one wasn't in scoring D. Seems to me, the one position that has hurt UM is QB.
When you go visit the MSU athletic halls, take some photos of your banner that says "top 5 finisher" and post those photos will ya? Taking out random stats that prove your point is meaningless. I would take Michigan's record over the past 30 years over your 2 Top 5 finishes and mediocre 28 years before that...there you go, I just pulled out a random 30 years.
Under Hoke, Michigan's defense was completely rebuilt from the horrible Rich Rodriguez teams. This was all due to Greg Mattison and he did it with the same players that Rich had on the roster with the exception of the last couple of years. Hoke also recruited fantasic OL, however, they were never developed and were coached exceptionally poor. Michigan was the youngest team across the board in the Big 10 last year and they all have playing experience. Harbaugh has changed everything and it has needed it for over 10 years now. I love how David Brandon used to sit in with Hoke's staff and watch film discussing game plans. Can you imagine Dave Brandon telling Jim Harbaugh what to do? Hilarious.
With the exception of the last maybe 3-4 years, there is no comparison between the football programs at MSU or Michigan. The Wolverines have been down now for 7 years with the exception of 2011. MSU has had a good run during that time, however, I always thought the football program at MSU pretty much ranked between average and sucked. 1987 was a good year and the Spartans did win the Rose Bowl. Dicktonio has done the best he is capable of doing in East Lansing and I although the Spartans have done good on a national level by beating Baylor (having to comeback from a huge defecit to do so) and Stanford in the Rose Bowl, they were crushed in Oregon last year. They are not OSU. Tressel built the Buckeyes to win outside of the Big 10 and before that, Michigan was the only Big 10 program that had a winning record against the SEC in bowls.Dicktonio lost Narduzzi and that is going to be a major deal. His other problem is going to be Jim Harbaugh in Ann Arbor. Harbaugh has coached against the best including his time in Stanford and he has always rose to the occassion motivating his teams tro win the big games. Just ask Pete Carrol about Harbaugh at Stanford. The Big 10 is really far behind OSU and Meyer is capitalizing right now. He will continue to roll and being in the Big 10 will help because its not the SEC week in and week out.
This season will be telling. Regardless of my love for Michigan football I have to give credit where credit is due - Dantonio might have the personality of a door knob but he is a great coach and has proven that. How his defense does this year will be interesting as you mentioned with Narduzzi gone. Right now - remember no games played yet - the tiers remain as follows:
OSU - league of their own
MSU & Wisconsin - can consistently compete for a BIG championship
Penn State, Michigan, Nebraska - have the name, the talent, the recruiting, but have ways to go
Rest of the BIG
I have watched every single Michigan game over the past 7 years and the irony is that the last 2 years we were pretty much in every single game except for @MSU. We just lacked discipline on how to close out games or how to win on the road. That tells me that the talent was there and we have some great players (people forget these were highly rated players) but they just were not coached. I personally believe that if JH was the coach last year versus Hoke we would have been 8-4 instead of 5-7 (we would have beaten Maryland, Rutgers, and Utah). I can keep going back and forth with MSU fans or OSU fans but the bottom line is as a fan of college football - what else can you ask for? The 3 best coaches in the BIG (and probably all Top 10 coaches across college football) are sitting in the same conference within the BIG so it will be fun to watch for the next few years as to how Urban, MD, & JH do against each other.
FWIW - As an outsider I see only three or possibly four games that I'd give Michigan an edge in this season. I'm thinking that 8-4 is the absolute high water mark in 2015. 6-6 is much more likely.
Looking down the road I see better days ahead for Michigan once again if Harbaugh makes the adjustment to Ann Arbor.
Looking down the road I see better days ahead for Michigan once again if Harbaugh makes the adjustment to Ann Arbor.
Dantonio has been the head coach at MSU for 8 seasons now. He's competed for the Big Ten championship 5 times, and has won 11+ in 4 of the last 5 seasons. This is the here and now and the new reality. Hell, even if UM had beat MSU in every one of the past 5 seasons, MSU would still be coming off of 10+ win seasons in 4 of the past 5 years.
You guys found out what crappy head coaches can to your program. MSU's had a few. That said, Dantonio has the MSU program in a very, very good place and that isn't going to change any time soon.
You were right on about turnovers. Gardner was A turnover machine. Funnchs dropped way to many as well and took way to many plays off. You will see a improved O-line and running game because of it. This defense will be special including the backs . Have in faith in this staff .
I could not stand to watch Gardner play QB. It was easy to tell that he had very little coaching, however his athleticism was his saving grace. He was responsible for 18 turnovers last year and that number alone is incredible. After 2011, Hoke never prepared for life after Robinson. He did recruit Morris, however, he has not been coached either. Funchess, I believe was very talented, however, he looked lazy at times. I have great faith that this staff will NEVER allow anything like this to occur under their watch.
Sounds great - in 20 years MSU will finally be able to say they have maybe as many BIG championships as Michigan. Your random 5 years, 8 years, etc make no sense. Yes he's a great coach, no question, but things can change very quickly. If Michigan starts to perform better, more kids will show up there. MSU has truly benefitted from us sucking for the past 7 years as a lot of local kids have found MSU as the place to go and be developed (which unfortunately is true). Dantonio does know how to develop kids, no question about that. Let's see how he does without Narduzzi though.
Drew Sharp is a second rate journalist employed by a third rate newspaper rag. He's a true sparty fan, let him have his time in the sun, it's coming to an end.
ON PAPER, did UM's recruiting suck under RR or Hoke? Here are Rivals team rankings for UM from 2008 to 2014. 10th, 8th, 20th, 21st, 7th, 4th, 31st.
As for Dantoino developing players, that's true, but player evaluation is the key. Bell was a two star guy that played immediately, and he was excellent immediately. Not much development time there. Waynes and Dennard (both 1st round picks and both two star recruits), were starting or playing a big role on MSU's D by their redshirt freshmen seasons. Dantonio, an ex-DB position coach, knows what he's looking for in a DB better than the recruiting services.
As for the loss of Narduzzi, don't forget it was Dantonio's D. Dantonio was the DC for the OSU national champ team in 2002, and basically is running the same D at MSU. Is Narduzzi a loss? We'll see. All the defensive position coaches are still in place.
I made the opening comment I did because Hoke delegated so much. People who laughed at all the hullabaloo on the boards over no headset - wonder what they thought when Hoke didn't see the hit on Morris. Was "aware, but not fully aware" of a possible concussion.
This was just another red flag that the issues were not (certainly exclusively) rooted in talent and experience deficits.
You could have plugged Jake Long and Mario Manningham into last year's lineup and it probably wouldn't have mattered. Come to think of it, having Super Mario in would have added to the frustration as he'd probably get open a ton and yet never see the football.
It was a team that seemed to play good football when they were in the mood, and conversely, buckled under adversity.
That team under a different staff was capable of more, but got what they deserved.
Go Blue. Always.
Don't think he's a Michigan State fan, either.
But his newspaper leans green.
IMO, Drew Sharp is a Drew Sharp fan.
Go Blue. Always.
Yeah, but Long, Manningham AND Brady would have had the team at 10+ wins. Hell, just make that Brady. Seems to me UM's lack of a good QB has been the biggest issue. Got a feeling Harbaugh feels the same way with the number of QB's he's bringing in.
The 2002 OSU team was also full of players that were paid, cheated, etc so you really want to go there? I mean if Hoke wanted to start doing that he would be sitting on NC #4 right now. Past is the past pal, that does not count. As I said, talk is cheap - it's all talk right now. In your opinion, MSU is the best thing since sliced bread and toliet paper, in my opinion I think Michigan beats MSU this year - either way, we will know. Proof is in the pudding and that is why games are played on the field by players and not on chat forums!
You were questioning what is going to happen to MSU's D without Narduzzi. I simply pointed out that the D was and is Dantonio's.
Yes, MSU is CURRENTLY one of the top 3 or 4 programs in the country. 5 years ago, that wasn't the case. Five years from now, we'll see.
BTW, what do you base UM beating MSU this year on?
I think the talent at Michigan is as good if not better then MSU - it just has been piss poor development but we have talented players and I believe that JH will coach and grow them enough. Also, don't forget (since many MSU fans choose to)...you have won 3 of the last 4 all at MSU!!! You have had the luxury of a very favorable schedule. A home game for a rivalry is a whole different story. Hoke could not coach on the road (check his stats) but was pretty incredible at home. This game will be in AA and I personally believe we will beat you. Remember OSU 2 years ago? #1 team in the country, coming to AA when Michigan was what 7-4 and we lost by 1 on a 2-pt conversion try with a QB playing with a broken foot? Rivalry games bring the best out often from home teams. I am sure you will have a random 5-year retort to that.
I disagree with this. Michigan State has had two great seasons, however, they are NOT currently one of the top five programs in the country and I don't care what the magazines say with this year's preseason rankings just to sell more magazines. There are many more teams that are consistently better than MSU on a yearly basis who happen to play a much more difficult schedule every year. LSU/Georgia/Auburn/ Florida/FSU/Alabama/Clemson/Oregon just to say a few. These programs may have a one or two down years, however. they are ALWAYS good. The SEC beats up on each other week after week and Tennessee is now going to be in the mix again because this will be Butch's breakout year in Knowxville. Even South Carolina under Holtz and then Spurrier has been better consistently than MSU. Dicktonio has benefitted from Michigan really being down during his 8 years and PSU has not been themselves with the Paterno death and scandals surrounding that program. Mark Dicktonio is a good coach, but his "It's us against the world," showboating attitude is about to retrun to mediocrity and below.over the next few years. I do expect them to be very good this year in the Big 10. I do not like Dicktonio because MSU has gained SOME football credibility by winning. I do not like him because he is a disciple of Jim Tressel and he was a part of the cheating that elevated OSU to becoming a NATIONALLY competitive program instead of the a regional power. He was not an ostrich while he was there. He certainly had to know something and his try to be tough guy look coupled with his jack ass comments will lighten up this year. Jim Harbaugh will set him straight and probably James Franklin as well.
The SEC was not especially good last season. Hell, Texas A&M and Missouri, run of the mill programs in the Big 12 (look at their last 10 years in the Big 12), seem to be doing better than fine in the SEC. Don't get me wrong, the SEC is good. But last season, the Big Ten was better.
As for MSU's two great seasons, let's not forget the two 11 win seasons in 2010 and 2011. The 2010 and 2011 teams had a totally different cast of characters than the 2013 and 2014 teams. We were hearing the same thing after Cousins move on after the 2011 season. That's it for MSU. Didn't turn out that way, did it?
One final point. You say UM and PSU being down helped MSU. Can't argue that. But when MSU is down, does that not help UM? Goes both ways doesn't it?
UM has had better talent? Only if you look at recruiting rankings. Where do you see better talent at UM? QB? RB? OL? DL? DB? LB? I'm curious, where do you see it?
Dude, are you completely oblivious or are you 12 years old? Look at each player's rankings on both squads. We are full of 4/5 stars and you are not. So yes coming out of HS Michigan players are FAR higher rated. Having said that MSU players perform way better and have developed way more. That means we have talent but it just has not been developed. I refuse to believe that all these players we recruited were so overrated.
Green - 5 star
Kalis - 5 star
Peppers - 5 star
Morris - 4/5 star
Isaac - 5 star
Darboh - 4 star
Charlton - 4 star
Richardson - 4 star
Bolden - 4 star
Houma - 4 star
Jenkins-Stone 4 star
Kugler - 4 star
Bars - 4 star
Braden - 4 star
Butt - 4 star
Ways - 4 star
Mone - 4 star
You really want me to keep going? Here's my suggestion - tying Googling some information before you make emotional claims. Nobody is arguing that MSU won't be good - great coach, and great teams the past few years, but I am arguing that Michigan has the potential to be as good if not better. Coaches matter. We went from 7-5 to 11-2 with CRAP talent in Hoke's first year. Look at what JH did with the 49ers with essentially the same talent. Look at Auburn 2 years ago when they almost won the entire thing. Look at what Urban did. Coaching matters as do D-coordinators, if not then why even hire good ones. Michigan will have a Top 3 D-coordinator in all of college football and a Top 5 coach in ALL of football. MSU has a great coach but you lost potentially a Top 3 D-coordinator.
I've watched the film on most of those players. Some are deserving of their rankings, others aren't. No way should Green have been more than a 3 star RB. That was my opinion when he committed and that's my opinion now. Morris a 4/5 star? How do you feel about that ranking?
Question. Where does Wisconsin generally rank nationally on signing day? Usually the high 20's to the 40's right. Does UM usually have more talent than Wisconsin? Let's look at some metrics.
I just ran these numbers a few weeks ago to make a point with someone and they were still on my desk. I mentioned to a friend that Wisconsin has been the equal to UM since my niece was born 22 years ago. He didn't believe me.
Wisconsin's record over those 22 years was 195-76-4. UM's? 184-86-0.
Big Ten titles (including shared). Wisconsin - 6. Um - 5 (1/2 of a national championship in there, though).
Number of times ranked at seasons end. Wisconsin 13, including 6 top 10's. UM's 16, including 5 top 10's.
Now here's the kicker. Let the NFL tell us which team had more talent.
Players drafted from 1993 to 2015. Wisconsin 87 (12 first rounders), UM 91 (17 first rounders).
UM's average recruiting class was ranked about 13th. Wisconsin's average recruiting class was ranked about 38th.
As you can see, UM had a VERY slight edge in talent over those 22 years, yet destroyed Wisconsin in the all important recruiting rankings. I bet UM brought in at least 100 more 4 star recruits than Wisconsin over those years. Hell, that's being conservative.
My point here, in a very, very long winded way is, stop looking at the recruiting rankings and start looking at the talent on the field.
I do agree that coaching makes a difference, but wasn't RR a damn good coach before and after UM? Hoke was a good prior to UM, right?
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Rich Rod is a fantastic coach - but when an administration does not let you run your style of play it does not matter. I bet you Chip Kelly would fail about Michigan because we are "Bo or bust" school - that irks me but it is what it is and considering that we have the best coach available. Hoke was a good coach???? Hoke was terrible - look at his overall record - he sucked other then like 1 good year in both schools. Hoke was soft. I think coordinators matter a lot too and I think you guys losing Narduzzi is going to hurt you guys - regardless of how great Dantonio may have been as D-coordinator at OSU. I expect you D will be less then it was last year, your offense will be better then it was last year though teams will be prepared versus being surprised this time around.
Now as for rankings and players - let me reiterate. Coming out of HS all players are methodically judged and yes Michigan in general has not been great at developing talent in the past decade or so while schools like Wisconsin are really good at that - no question. Michigan State has probably been better then any school in the past 5 years at developing talent. However, these kids have potential and most of Michigan's players were 18-19 year old kids who had terrible player development and I do expect with a better coach they will grow and be closer to their potential. In the past 3-4 years the performance gap on the field against MSU has been appalling to me - I don't expect that will be the case this year. I do believe there will be more parity and I do believe that talent will emerge at Michigan. As for Green - I doubt he's a 3-star, he's better but maybe not 5. Remember, he ran behind the worst O-line in the country the past 2 years - Barry Sanders would average 2-yards a carry behind that line. At the end of the day like it or not recruiting talent does matter and makes a huge difference. Sure there are schools like Wisconsin that quite frankly plays a cupcake non-BIG schedule year in and year out that sneak in and MSU that past few years. However, look at all the NT in the past decade and look at the class-ratings for those schools. Here I can do it for you:
OSU - Top 5 every year
FSU - Top 5 every year
Bama - Top 2 every year
Bama - Top 2 ever year
Auburn - Top 10 annually
Bama - Top 2 every year
Florida - Top 5 every year
LSU - Top 3 every year
Florida - Top 5 every year
Texas - Top 2 before they started sucking but when they won they had talent
USC - Top 2 every year
LSU - Top 2 every year
The list goes on and on - so yes recruiting talent does matter a whole lot and if you combine that with incredible coaching, it matters even more. If MSU could recruit like OSU or Michigan they would win a NT with a great coach like you have. Wisconsin will never win a NT - they will be a Top 20 school annually based on schedule but put Wisconsin in the SEC and they will get demolished every single week - heck put them in the PAC and that will happen. Wisconsin has had the easiest schedule in the BIG virtually every year for the past decade. Once again this year they don't play Michigan, PSU, MSU or OSU. They will be once again finish 10-2 this year and lost to Bama and Nebraska and beat all the other really crappy BIG teams. I bet if Michigan did not play MSU, OSU, or PSU we would win 10 games with Brady Hoke!
Now as for rankings and players - let me reiterate. Coming out of HS all players are methodically judged and yes Michigan in general has not been great at developing talent in the past decade or so while schools like Wisconsin are really good at that - no question. Michigan State has probably been better then any school in the past 5 years at developing talent. However, these kids have potential and most of Michigan's players were 18-19 year old kids who had terrible player development and I do expect with a better coach they will grow and be closer to their potential. In the past 3-4 years the performance gap on the field against MSU has been appalling to me - I don't expect that will be the case this year. I do believe there will be more parity and I do believe that talent will emerge at Michigan. As for Green - I doubt he's a 3-star, he's better but maybe not 5. Remember, he ran behind the worst O-line in the country the past 2 years - Barry Sanders would average 2-yards a carry behind that line. At the end of the day like it or not recruiting talent does matter and makes a huge difference. Sure there are schools like Wisconsin that quite frankly plays a cupcake non-BIG schedule year in and year out that sneak in and MSU that past few years. However, look at all the NT in the past decade and look at the class-ratings for those schools. Here I can do it for you:
OSU - Top 5 every year
FSU - Top 5 every year
Bama - Top 2 every year
Bama - Top 2 ever year
Auburn - Top 10 annually
Bama - Top 2 every year
Florida - Top 5 every year
LSU - Top 3 every year
Florida - Top 5 every year
Texas - Top 2 before they started sucking but when they won they had talent
USC - Top 2 every year
LSU - Top 2 every year
The list goes on and on - so yes recruiting talent does matter a whole lot and if you combine that with incredible coaching, it matters even more. If MSU could recruit like OSU or Michigan they would win a NT with a great coach like you have. Wisconsin will never win a NT - they will be a Top 20 school annually based on schedule but put Wisconsin in the SEC and they will get demolished every single week - heck put them in the PAC and that will happen. Wisconsin has had the easiest schedule in the BIG virtually every year for the past decade. Once again this year they don't play Michigan, PSU, MSU or OSU. They will be once again finish 10-2 this year and lost to Bama and Nebraska and beat all the other really crappy BIG teams. I bet if Michigan did not play MSU, OSU, or PSU we would win 10 games with Brady Hoke!
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